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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Help - wrong A level choice for medicine

64 replies

itwillbebetter · 04/11/2016 08:46

DS1 is 6 weeks into 6 form. He took A levels in Physics, Chemistry and Maths with the hope to do degree in either pure physics or medicine. When we researched medicine it seemed that Chemistry was preferable over biology (which seemed odd) Son is now leaning to medicine more than physics and is starting to panic that biology would've been the better bet.
Should he think about dropping maths to try and catch up in biology? He can only take 3 at his school.But by dropping maths he rules out degree in physics if he doesn't make medicine.
Also I am concerned that his GCSE results will not be strong enough. He got 7 A*/A's but also 3 C's (in subjects that are not relevant to either physics or medicine) Would the 3 c's damage his chances against those with a raft of all A's, or will a strong personal statement and work experience override that?
Too many decisions!

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Abraiid2 · 04/11/2016 09:49

That's the thing, this stuff changes all the time. At the beginning of lower sixth my daughter was told her English Language IGCSE wasn't considered eligible for admission to Hull and York. By the time she came to hand in her application, it was.

You have to keep on checking and rechecking websites and all the small print. It is so complicated. My other child did history and that was a doddle to apply for in comparison.

OP, a very good UKCAT score opens many medical school doors a little wider. Some medical schools like Southampton really place a lot of emphasis on it and less on the other elements.

But again, it can all change.keep looking at medical school websites for updates, especially as A level and GCSE reforms continue.

itwillbebetter · 04/11/2016 10:19

Thanks for all the responses. I've gone through most of the entry requirement websites and more than half want biology! So far
University of Birmingham
Brighton & Sussex
Edinburgh
Exeter
Glasgow
Hull
ICL
Kings
Lancaster
Leicester
Liverpool
Norwich
Plymouth
Southampton
St Andrews
St Georges
all want biology and chemistry.

His GCSE's were all strongest in all sciences, english and maths so they might hold up. He is finding maths hard though, despite getting the A*. I'm really not sure what to advise him to do, such a minefield Confused

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titchy · 04/11/2016 10:35

Well he needs to get work experience asap, otherwise the choice will be made for him.

soapybox · 04/11/2016 10:38

itwillbebetter - from memory only the top 8 or 9 GCSEs count towards the academic points allocation, so he may well be fine.

As others have said, the important thing is to get on with volunteering and work experience - certainly the universities my DD applied to last year wanted some long term volunteering experience - and I think Leeds specified a minimum of one year at the open day (as your DS may be considering Leeds as they don't require biology A-level).

The UKCAT and BMAT are the entrance tests (different universities use different tests) and he should do some preliminary test runs of these to see which universities are likely to do the one he performs best at to maximise his chance of success, as they do test in a different way.

itwillbebetter · 04/11/2016 13:09

He has got some work experience hopefully sorted and also has done volunteer work over the summer holidays but is a bit held back by being at boarding school.

Can anyone share with me how much shadowing/work experience their DC managed to fit in?

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soapybox · 04/11/2016 13:37

can he volunteer in some capacity at school?

My DD did about 3 weeks of shadowing/work experience in clinical settings, two years of weekly volunteering at a hospice for children and 18 months of weekly (paid) netball coaching.

The universities that made offers ask for referees details for every activity included on the personal statement.

Abraiid2 · 04/11/2016 13:44

It depends on the university as to how many GCSEs they count. For instance, this year Birmingham looks at six.

mudandmayhem01 · 04/11/2016 14:13

I think it also depends on the type of school the student went to, I know our local university would a lot more accommodating of a few weaker GCSE grades if the student went to school with low A-C passes, no option to take triple science etc than one who went to a top fee paying school.

Katisha · 04/11/2016 15:01

DS will be applying for 2018. He's just done a week of clinical work experience which we sorted out ourselves, not through school, but nobody has mentioned writing a reference or anything. Should he ask for something now rather than wait to see if anyone asked for it in a years time?

soapybox · 04/11/2016 15:12

Katisha

As long as he has the name and work email address of the person that supervised him when carrying out the work experience that will be fine.

Katisha · 04/11/2016 18:33

Thanks Soapy. Another question - how can you become a HCA at a hospital while still at school? I've seen this mentioned a couple of times but looking at our local hospital, they seem to want full time people.

Mrsmorton · 04/11/2016 18:42

I'm amazed that the need for chemistry has been dropped. I wonder what the driver for that was. It's far easier to catch up on biology than to understand the chemistry part.
Anyway, if he's in to both topics, medical physics is a niche career and absolutely fascinating

CMOTDibbler · 04/11/2016 18:55

I agree MrsMorton, medical physics is a brilliant path for those who love the technical aspects of physics, and you can specialise in very clinical areas if you want direct patient contact.

SarahMused · 04/11/2016 20:20

Katisha - they don't generally work as an HCA whilst at school. They do it in a gap year if they fail to get in first time round.

itwillbebetter · 04/11/2016 20:22

Thanks for the medical physics idea Mrsmorton I will run this by him as he is by far strongest in the physics area

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Rosieposy4 · 04/11/2016 20:32

As far as work experience etc goes DS2 who is at Bristol had a strong portfolio to make up for his rather odd academics ( he only did chem and bio GCSE and not physics)
He had three years of weekly help at a club for physically and mentally handicapped children and young adults, had coached a sport he did for a younger age group for a year, 2 weeks at a GPs where he had done an audit, 2 weeks in local hospital ( competitive application for slots), was head boy, played county level sport, and by the time of his interview, but not at apllication was working as a care assistant in old peoples home.

PurpleDaisies · 04/11/2016 20:32

For a physics degree his maths has to be absolutely top drawer. There's as almost as much maths in a physics degree as physics. Many applicants will have done further maths so there'll be some catching up to do at the start (which is fine-I didn't do further maths a level myself so it's just extra work but you absolutely have to be good at maths). Medical physics is an interesting field to work in though.

CMOTDibbler · 04/11/2016 20:32

IPEM are the professional body for Medical Physicists and Technologists, and there's lots of examples of what we actually do. I specialised in radiotherapy, though it was clinical engineering that first attracted me.
There's never a shortage of jobs, and the hours are social compared to medicine too.

sendsummer · 04/11/2016 22:29

I think he needs some guidance and feedback on how he is doing with his maths since for physics degree as said by pp he needs to really enjoy difficult maths and for medicine he will need high grades in all three subjects. Unfortunately he does not have the option of dropping a weaker subject at AS since he is only taking three. Other degree options to consider are material sciences or biochemical engineering as those would tick the physics and chemistry boxes plus have many applications in medicine.

Decorhate · 05/11/2016 07:10

My dd said that on her course, those who had not done Biology A Level had some extra classes in first year but other than that it wasn't a problem.

Regarding Maths, it's very common even for A* students to struggle initially in any subject due to the huge step change in content & workload. I think dd got a D in her first Y12 Maths assessment. Her school were very good about organising extra intervention classes from Y12 onwards which definitely helped.

shinynewusername · 05/11/2016 07:22

As a doctor, I'd say a better question is why he wants to do medicine? I know very few happy doctors. The profession has changed totally over the last 20 years. Medicine has always been hard, but in the past most doctors derived a lot of satisfaction from their work. Few do now - most are demoralised and burnt out.

I would very much encourage anyone considering medicine to look at other options. Medical physics is a good suggestion. He could also look at engineering and IT then work in healthcare settings if he chose.

lljkk · 05/11/2016 07:59

... But according to MN all the teachers-lawyers-vets-academics are equally miserable in their professions. Honestly, this place is one big MoanFest some days.

Needmoresleep · 07/11/2016 09:49

Medical schools are inundated with applications but won't want to all select the same people. So they filter slightly differently. Some (Keele, Bristol) like lots of volunteering or extra-curricular, others (Oxbridge, Imperial, QMC) seem to want tip top academics, others rely heavily on aptitude tests.

Very few applicants meet everyone's criteria. The trick is to apply to the right places. You can only apply to four, and you only need one place.

I would look closely at the entrance criteria for each, perhaps looking at this summary natalierm2707futuredoctorblogs.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/a100-2017-entry-admissions-policies-nrm2707-fdb1.docx and then looking at the detail on a medical school's website.

(I would also recommend the blog natalierm2707futuredoctorblogs.wordpress.com/category/applying/ written by the same medical student.)

Also look at the applicant to offer ratios on The Student Room. They can vary widely with Belfast and Bristol on opposite ends of the spectrum. Unless you are very confident try to limit yourself to one aspirational choice. (And don't apply anywhere where you won't meet the criteria.)

There are several Universities that don't require biology. Cambridge is one. Lacking chemistry is more of a problem but it looks as if Cardiff, Keele and Newcastle don't insist. The trouble with missing one of these subjects is that your choice is then limited and you need to ace their other criteria.

Provided your DS can find four Universities that he wants to apply to, which don't require biology, I would not worry. Get on with the maths and work hard at getting good predictions and ticking as many other boxes as possible.

Maths is increasingly important, and also gives him a good range of alternatives degrees. A growing and interesting field is bio medical engineering. DD was told much the same as CMOT suggests. Indeed the researcher (of artificial hearts) who spoke to us suggested that all medics should think carefully about whether they are interested in the science or people. Medics are like car mechanics, they keep the body going, whereas people like him are more like the car designer. Compatible advice from a medic friend was that a medical degree is not a bad place to start. So if DD retains her interest in maths/physics/electronics and finds herself less interested in general medicine she could intercalate, and use this to steer her career. The more maths you have, the wider the options.

Volunteering is considered another potential barrier to those who are not certain about medicine. My personal view is that not being sure is a better place to be, than deciding a decade before that you want to be a doctor, working hard to tick the boxes, thrilling your friends and family when you get a place, and then hating the course. Honestly do as much as you can, but don't worry too much. I would look around now, and perhaps pick a couple of things (ask your local leisure centre if any disabled sports groups use it, and volunteer to help out at a weekly session, or perhaps ask about a local befriending service and visit an elderly person once a week or do their shopping) which you can do consistently and which wont take up much time. DD volunteered one holiday in a care home, cooking and cleaning and occasionally taking someone with dementia out for walks. It never came up at interview but gave her an important insight into whether she could cope with the sort of patient who makes up a significant portion of a hospital population. (She could but lots can't so you might as well find out early.) They were short staffed so her shifts increased and she ended up being paid. Plus she gained first hand experience of the important but low paid support work that keeps the health sector going. Some of the more academic medical schools seem to put a lower emphasis on volunteering, though you need to have done some.

Use next summer to do some shadowing. The amount of time does not matter, the understanding of what being a doctor might entail, does. Also look at outreach schemes run by nearby medical schools, and work like blazes on UKCAT and BMAT. UKCAT is all about timing. Regular practice will help, and a good UKCAT score will open up more options than a biology A level. (This one is from bitter experience!)

Also he should retain an interest in biology by reading popular books, say on the double helix, and perhaps could get subscriptions to the main science magazines for Christmas. My guess is that an interviewer might want to probe whether his lack of biology was as a result of a lack of interest in biology or because of a greater interest in maths/physics. A decent general knowledge should allay fears.

Sorry about the essay. Last year's application was pretty stressful, though DD was lucky enough to end up with two offers. The other thing is to treat medicine as a two year application. If you don't get in first time round, try again, using the year to strengthen your application. One possibility would be to work in a health care environment (either in the UK or abroad) and study for biology A level at the same time, only sitting it, if any offer has that as a condition.

bojorojo · 07/11/2016 12:25

I think boarding schools are no barrier to work experience because there are always Sundays/Saturdays and there must be care homes and other settings nearby where he could do voluntary work. Also, use the old boys/girls network to see who may be able to offer suitable work experience in the holidays. He cannot be the only pupil at the school who has ever wanted to do a medicine! What did the others do regarding work experience and placements?

itwillbebetter · 07/11/2016 18:27

Thank you very much for all your posts, they have all been very helpful.

needmoresleep Really appreciate your essay and the links you provided. I have been trawling the websites and think he can still have a shot without the biology. He picked Chemistry Maths and Physics because these are his strongest subjects but he still picked up an A in Biology so he has some knowledge of the subject. He enjoyed the human aspect of biology but found the plant stuff really dull and thought chemistry would be more helpful to medicine. Although he got a high A* for maths he found the jump to A level quite a surprise although its settled down now!!

He is quite proactive and uses his holiday time for volunteering and has had some responses about shadowing over the xmas break so I think bojorojo you are right about boarding not being a problem. The school has had various students go onto medicine so I guess they all have managed somehow!
Bit exhausting this parenting lark isn't it Wink

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