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Original poster

Room in student house without a window

399 replies

Evalina · 05/10/2016 22:59

DD's in her second year and has moved into what is otherwise a nice student house. However her room has no window. It has 2 doors, one into the hall and the other into a kitchen/lounge. So she has no natural light and no direct ventilation. She does get some light (and reduced privacy) through the frosted glazed door between her and the kitchen, but if she opens it to get air, then she gets cooking fumes and noise too.

We have raised it with local council HMO office who are not being very responsive, although they have spoken to landlord who has put in a brighter lightbulb! Landlord has said to DD's housemates that he knows loads of people at the council, and that if he's told to do anything it won't happen until next summer, so DD is wasting her time complaining about it. He's also said his wife is having a baby and is stressed at the thought they might have to pay to sort it out. As a result DD's housemates, who all have nice rooms with proper windows, are telling her to drop it, even though they have all declined to swap rooms with her.

I believe the problem could be fixed for less than £5k, which given collectively they are paying £38k in rent for the year is not too shocking.

Not sure what else to do really. Anyone got any advice?

OP posts:
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Original poster
Evalina · 06/10/2016 08:17

I am looking at daylight lamps now and will get one to her asap. She can't move unfortunately. My council says this is against the rules. The council where she is is being slow to act. Both the Landlord and the council officer confirm that they 'know each other'.

I have emailed the local councillor. I want someone who doesn't know the LL to take a look at it.

I also think it's unacceptable that he keeps coming round the house and is criticising my daughter to her friends.

OP posts:
PseudoBadger · 06/10/2016 08:18

Escalate to the HMO officer's manager. I would hope they are an EHO. Ask for a HHSRS assessment to be done. Also raise with the local councillors.

Jellyshoeshurtmyfeet · 06/10/2016 08:20

I'm a letting agent. A glazed door into a kitchen is not allowed under HMO rules. It must be a fire door. There should also be a wired smoke alarm in every room including your daughter's. I'm in the North East and a breach of rules would be taken very seriously by the council. Try Environment Health as I would have thought that as the months go on she will have problems in her room from the kitchen - steam, condensation, etc. If you still get nowhere you could try a formal complaint to the agent.
Your daughter could try to find a tenant to take over her room and then ask her landlord to sign a Surrender of Tenancy format so you aren't chased for rent. She will then be free to live elsewhere.
I would say that in future she should never sign a legal agreement without seeing what she is signing for.

itlypocerka · 06/10/2016 08:22

If these people don't want her to complain but also refuse to swap, but just want her to put up and shut up, they are not her friends.

fastdaytears · 06/10/2016 08:31

It sounds horrible but I would have thought there was a risk that the landlord would say that it's now a 5 bed house not a 6 bed? Taking into account the tax he'd be better off taking a 1/6 rent cut than paying out £5k. Not a long term view but he doesn't seem to be thinking all that long term right now.

I can see how this would cause big friendship issues though. I'm really surprised that your DD wasn't given a chance to see the room before she signed up. Is she more upset by the friend stuff or the room?

munchkinmaster · 06/10/2016 08:32

I don't see where the council will get you. Landlord will just say "fine it's a 5 bed house" and your daughter is homeless.

I remember looking at flats with a proper box room (no windows) as a student. When 2 of us had to share a room we swapped part way through the year.

Your daughter has made a mistake, her friends aren't being great but leave them to it. They are adults. I know you want to help but Having you get all involved makes it a bigger deal and makes your daughter look daft.

I don't think you can change this so help your daughter cope when she is upset rather that jumping to the rescue?

JedRambosteen · 06/10/2016 08:37

She may be able to get support and/or advice from her students' union on this.

munchkinmaster · 06/10/2016 08:39

Also I dunno, maybe it's changed days but when we were students you shared a room. I had a pal who slept in a kind of bunk bed in a cupboard with "borrowed" light in a tenement flat. I knew some one else who slept in a curtained off kitchen recess rather than share a room.

It's not forever.......

Bobochic · 06/10/2016 08:41

Your DD should get the university involved.

Original poster
Evalina · 06/10/2016 08:41

Thanks for the advice, PseudoBadger I will speak to the manager today - what is an EHO? I will also ask for the HHSRS assessment.

It's quite a heavy, frosted glazed door to the kitchen and replaced what were original french windows according to old photos I found on the internet. I did originally assume it was a fire door, but the HMO officer told my DD to keep the door open if she wanted more light/air. I asked about it being a fire door and he said it wasn't so it was fine to leave it open. I will double check re the smoke alarm, maybe there is one and I just didn't spot it.

She wants to stay with her 'friends' , as I did suggest seeing if she could find someone else to take the room. They are actually a really nice group, I just think they have no real appreciation of the problem and think it is just DD being fussy. But yes I am disappointed that they are not being more supportive.

She did see the house before signing and the rest of the house is very nice. She was late and so didn't see all the bedrooms, or it was rushed and none of them noticed that the door was not a door to the back yard as we assumed.

Think it's fair to say she has learnt a lesson - but I would still like to find a solution. I am going to call the university today as well - he has some accreditation from them.

OP posts:
goodbyestranger · 06/10/2016 08:44

DS1 lived in a windowless room all through his fourth year (last year) but his room was tiny, so even less air than a larger room. He got all the kitchem fumes in his room and he's a vegetarian (as am I) so I don't know how he stuck it. He and his housemates (all medics so all with the same workload) had drawn straws and he just came off worst. I did keep asking him through the year if he was ok and he said yes and now he's sharing with the same crowd but in a much better house and everyone agreed he should have first choice of room. I think if your DD had been unhappy she should have voiced that at the outset - it's a bit late now. Windowless rooms are grim - I couldn't hack one.

Original poster
Evalina · 06/10/2016 08:48

She is on a 'joint and several' contract, so he can't just evict her, or indeed any of them. I think it all rests on the HMO, if the council approve it, then she has to decide to get on with it or look to leave. If they don't issue the licence then the LL is told he has to fix the problem, and in theory, no-one in the house has to pay rent until it has been fixed, and none of them can be evicted. That's just according to google though, so may not be correct.

My older DD also had a grotty room full of mould last year, and I left her to it, but all that means is that this year's student has the same problem. I'm worried about DD's mental health or I would be leaving her to it as well, plus she asked me to get involved.

This thread has been really helpful, thank you all.

OP posts:
PinkSquash · 06/10/2016 08:50

WRT the smoke detectors and fire doors I would get the local fire service to come round and do a check, they'll be able to force things legally if they're deemed unsafe, but be warned if the LL doesn't accept then they may lose their accommodation entirely if he's forced to close the premises.

fastdaytears · 06/10/2016 08:53

She is on a 'joint and several' contract, so he can't just evict her, or indeed any of them

He won't evict them but I can't see what there is to stop him downgrading to a 5 bedroom if it's on H&S grounds

Original poster
Evalina · 06/10/2016 08:57

I think he can do that yes, but if the house doesn't have a valid HMO licence, for the number of occupiers, then he can face a fine of £20,000 plus it seems they may not need to pay rent if it's unlicensed. I think as long as they haven't breached the contract he can't evict them, but yes that is a concern.

OP posts:
Original poster
Evalina · 06/10/2016 08:59

That is none of them would need to pay rent - so the prospect of a £20,000 fine plus no rent from the house, should be an incentive to get it fixed, in theory at least.

OP posts:
goodbyestranger · 06/10/2016 09:05

My advice, given all you've said about friendship issues, the rest of the house (nice), the landlord's attitude etc would be not to rock the boat. I think there could be a real danger of the landlord going down to five occupants and your DD's position then - having alienated friends and trying to find somewhere decent at this time of year - would be dire. Surely she gets ventilation through the lounge if a window in there is opened? And wouldn't a good lamp be easier on the eye in the daytime than an overhead light glaring down? At least she has a good house generally and likes her housemates. I'd tread with care.

fastdaytears · 06/10/2016 09:07

The whole HMO thing is a great development in my opinion but the fines round here for shocking violations are all less than £5k. I don't know what the magistrates are doing.

fastdaytears · 06/10/2016 09:09

Based on the council's approach round here, if he took "remedial action" by changing the occupancy to a safe number (i.e. 5) there would be no action taken as they're busy chasing LL who don't engage at all (and then get fined the grand total of £3,000)

It's all a bit rubbish.

MoreCoffeeNow · 06/10/2016 09:16

If her friends have a go at her again tell her to tell them that she'll drop it if one of them swaps rooms with her. If they won't then she can say why should she put up with it if they won't. And carry on complaining.

HelsinkiLights · 06/10/2016 09:16

Good friends.......rubbish. Good friends should be at least sympathetic to the situation. They all sound very selfish & the LL a greedy basket.
I hope it gets sorted soon OP.

Artandco · 06/10/2016 09:16

Can't they just add a ventilation hole and cover at the bottom of both doors? That way doors can remain shut but air circulates. Costs about £10 each vent, and someone to cut the rectangular hole at bottom and screw on

PseudoBadger · 06/10/2016 09:29

A habitable room, particularly one used for working/living as well as sleeping should have sufficient natural light and ventilation, and a reasonable view.
Out of interest, where is the boiler?

Original poster
Evalina · 06/10/2016 09:43

The boiler is in the kitchen/lounge. It's quite a large, and light room, and the boiler is at the far side of the room to DD's door.

The door is glass, and does have a small window above it (into the kitchen/lounge) which she does open, however the window can only open a couple of centimetres.

However that does have the side effect of noise, and cooking fumes.

OP posts:
goodbyestranger · 06/10/2016 09:45

A reasonable view! What kind of student accommodation have you been used to Badger?! The same DS who had a windowless room had a view of a large oak tree in his second year which would have been nice except that it was at point blank range, blocking out the peeling wall of the large Victorian house immediately behind it.

This room isn't used for 'living' since the house in question has a lounge. I suppose the DD in question could ask to change her room for the lounge but I would expect that to go down like a lead balloon with the housemates.

In the housemates' defence, she did see the house and wasn't away on a year abroad or anything like that.