Help needed please! Geog or History degree?

[Horsemad]

DS is applying for 2017. He is studying Maths, Geog & History. Is reasonably good at all 3 but has no 'passion' for any of them.

AS results were AAC (C in Geog which was a surprise as he put a lot of work in but wasn't far off a B).
For background, he got A at GCSE for Geog & A* for History.

Doesn't know what he wants to do. Doesn't want a gap year.
Had been considering Geog after visiting several open days. Is now undecided whether to do Geog or History and is a bit 'rabbit in the headlights' as he needs to write a PS and doesn't know which subject he will apply for!

I think his C in Geog has made him reconsider but not sure what to advise him.

Any ideas please?

The 'lack of passion' is not a problem if he is going for one of the big universities, if we believe what admission people on this forum tell us. They don't read the PS, they offer purely on grades.

This is misquoting. Many (most) courses offer purely on grades but some courses are more selective and will look at many factors. Look carefully at the courses of interest before assuming that "passion" won't be a factor.

Most of the courses that interview are the engineering and medicine/vetmed I think.

Rather few engineering courses interview. A number of courses outside engineering, medicine, vet med do - portfolio based courses, courses at the very top ranked universities (not just Oxbridge) etc etc.

He really needs to think about career options as nowadays a history degree isn't worth very much on its own. I have one myself and have had to do an MSc in a different subject. My brother is doing a degree in a vocation and that is what I will be encouraging my children to do. It's tough out there and doing a degree willy-nilly is a waste of time.

That's an interesting idea lightgreenglass. Bit of a pita if one doesn't know what one wants to do though!

A degree in Geography from a decent university may require an A in Geography though, Horsemad, so he may need to explore other options as people have suggested. The young people I know with geography degrees have gone on to be a food buyers (tea), an Estate Agent and several Town Planners. All did additional qualifications. There is a very good Land Management degree at Reading for example. Joint Honours presents no problem to employers because the degree is only getting the young person on the starting line type of qualification. It is what goes with it that matters and going to a good university is half the battle when over 50 universities offer Geography. At least doing a degree in your favourite subject gives you thinking time but the C/B might limit choices.

Also it's worth knowing that history at university is so much different to how it is at a-level!

Sherlock can you tell me what is different? (asking because I need to know for a new job!)

He really needs to think about career options as nowadays a history degree isn't worth very much on its own

I'm surprised at that comment, LGG. I wouldn't have thought a degree in History was any less valuable than a number of other humanities/languages/non-vocational degrees although I suspect the University awarding that degree might be a factor in future employability? I know lawyers; accountants and bankers and a number of general "graduate management trainees" with a degree in History but one thing they all have in common aside from the subject is a 2:1 or better from a RG Uni.

It may be contentious but in the matter of non-vocational degrees it seems to me that the awarding Institution and degree class are at least as important as the subject?

i think there are 2 reasons for doing a degree. one is that you are really passionate about a subject and want to know more about it. the second is that there is a job that you are really passionate to do and this is the means to that end. I am not really sure about going to Uni otherwise if I am honest. it will incur a huge amount of debt - £9k fees £5K accommodation plus living costs and books. I really wouldn't want to pay out that much money for something I felt a bit "meh" about.

does he want to go to uni or do you want him to go? would he be better off having a year out and getting some work experience? has he really looked at the vast array of courses on offer and not been passionate about any of them?

Geography with a year long work placement in industry. Very good for getting jobs.

My degree was from a RG university and a 2.1 and most of the people on my course went on to do additional qualifications. Mainly Law.

A year long work placement would definitely be well worth it, DH did a placement and it secured his first job. I think myself and my siblings / friends found it difficult to get jobs when we left (graduated 2010) taking unpaid internships and signing on which was incredibly demoralising, the whole experience makes me wish I had chosen to do a vocational degree. I'm getting to where I want to be but it's taken me longer than I hoped.

mummymeister, his reasons for going are because a degree gets him a better job.

It's his call whether he goes or not but he's intelligent enough to cope with the workload and sensible enough to realise a good degree will get him a better job/income, so I guess he'll go.

I have a geography degree. It's worth sod all to my career now. However he can start uni doing both and choose which he goes on to do honours with later on. My uni even offered joint degrees. Mine is joint geography & environmental science.

"Passionate" is a greatly overworked word! You have to be sufficiently interested to do the degree for 3 years. You also have to want university life and hopefully move away from home and grow up without your parents around! It is about making your own decisions, getting on with others and organising your own life. Deciding what job you want to do can take time. My DD didn't decide on law as a career until about y2 of an MFL degree. Talking to other students, going to the "milk round" careers show and talking to employers, going to law events at university (as far as she was allowed to) and doing a bit of research prompted her decision but she wanted to do 2 MFLs first! Why not?

There is no guarantee you get a job with a vocational degree either. You just have to position yourself appropriately in the job market and get appropriate work experience or volunteering. The degree is the starting point, not the whole picture!

I agree bojorojo, I am getting heartily sick of hearing students need to be 'passionate' about their subject

Sure, it won't feel such a chore if you enjoy the subject you are studying, but many go who are not 'passionate' and they just get on with it, work hard and get their degree 3 or 4 yrs later.

Loads of people then go on to work for years in jobs they don't 'enjoy', because they work to live and not vice versa.

That's life in the REAL world, isn't it?

I'm a geography graduate and I loved studying for my degree ( 30 years ago ) .

Last week I was back at my old university at an open day and went to visit the geography department and I'd LOVE do it all over again - the new courses look amazing , it's completely changed . I'd enroll again tomorrow if I could.

I'm currently based in a Geog dept, by the way. Our graduate employment stats are second best to engineering at our institution.

Really recommend the sandwich year. Depends on the uni but usually students just pay a nominal fee to stay registered and then move away for a year and earn a salary. They have the option of going to big companies or sometimes smaller independents (wages tend to be better with the larger ones though).

Geography students are well thought of because of their wide skillset, there are lots of different areas you can go into. Recently we have had students go out to all sorts of things, gov depts, food manufacturers, car companies, supermarkets, all sorts!

So Horsemad, he just needs to find something he can get along with at university! Some Universities will allow change after 1 year anyway so long as the change is not too great and the student is qualified for the second choice of course. Expensive though!

I also think History students can get onto graduate schemes so what really counts is the additional attributes they have, not just the degree. Everyone has the degree! Like Geography, History has lots of strands so finding one he enjoys may not be too difficult.

Medic and nursing employment stats are stellar regardless of where these courses are offered! Lots of others degrees vary from institution to institutio, even Engineering. However, often the best universities also have the best employment rates unless a course has a special feature that employers want. It may also matter who the employers are regarding future prospects and job satisfaction.

I did combined studies at Manchester. Picked lectures from about six subjects (geography, social anthropology, architecture, psychology, planning, sociology) in first year and narrowed it down until I founded what I liked best. In my final year I did 50% geography and 50% social anthropology. Something like that might be a good choice for him.

Founded! Hmmn. Found!

I then did a pg duping surveying for one year, and got exemption from Rics exams as someone suggested up post. Most people have to do some sort of postgrad now, I don't the subject of your first degree is that important.

If your first degree is in a traditional academic subject that gives you the chance to change again in your career at a later date with a different post grad. Eg, i could now retrain as a teacher or a town planner if I wanted in a year or two.

Pg diploma sheesh!

Geography & History are both very popular subjects with universities like Exeter & Bristol wanting A*AA last year.

His fave Uni so far (still 2 more to visit) want AAB for Geog and AAA for History.

They are different unis, he liked both but preferred the sound of Geog at one and History at the other.

He's got a high C and has been predicted a B and that's in the bag. With History being one of the new style A levels, the A he got this year doesn't count towards next year's grade and so effectively he will need to do it all again in History. (Thanks Michael Gove )

To my mind it'd be easier to apply for Geog (and he enjoys it, so he wouldn't be 'settling' imo but obviously it's his choice.

He needs to check out the detail of the different options available in each geography department . Although they will all cover the same basics in human and physical geography, each department will have its own particular interests and many have a particular regional focus .

Some will allow combinations with other subjects, often this depends on which faulty / school / department that they are in .