Neuroscience at a RG uni

[Socialaddict]

DD would like to study Neuroscience at a top RG university. What are the required/ preferred A levels for this and which uni would you recommend as best for this subject? Many thanks in advance.

Parietal that is really encouraging! Thank you! Do you think she can do a Physics A level instead of Maths?

Socialaddict not ran answer to your question but your DD would find this interesting.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07j4jg8

Also relating to your last question and something she will pick up on from the above programme is that medical physics and neurosciences have a strong connection due to the importance of brain imaging in clinical research. Some natural science degrees will allow the combination, see below.
www.ucl.ac.uk/medphys/undergrad/natsci

BTW there does seem to be a recurring theme here for UCL (GOS is also part of UCL).

I would advise her about the Natural Science degrees (and there is a good one at non RG Bath). Perfect for someone who does not want to focus on one Science discipline, advances in Science play scant regard for disciplinary boundaries anyway which is why Cambridge only offers Natural Science degrees at undergraduate level with broader specialisms. There will often be the option to study Psychology, and even neuroscience modules within getting a broader knowledge of Science. Good course at UCL ;-) Agree Maths is essential to survive though and will almost certainly be a compulsory module.

And indeed the UCL course has Psychology and Neuroscience specialist combinations....www.ucl.ac.uk/mathematical-physical-sciences/natural-sciences/core-streams/stream-combinations

Thank you All, I'll have a look at the Nat. Sciences degree and shall suggest it to DD. Many thanks to all of you for the good advice and suggestions!

Really wouldn't want to do physics or chemistry without maths A level.

Yes - and I'd have thought with bio sciences maths would generally be more useful than physics? Not so much in terms of the uni offers as that if you've not got maths A level surely there would be more catch up on stats?

I couldn't have done Chemistry at university without AS maths, it was a pre-requisite for the course (or you had to do a catch up maths course which means you have less choice). Tbh I think a-level physics would be hard without maths, not impossible, but harder.

NatSci is a brilliant course - it's taught at Lancaster, Bath, Durham and probably some others as well as Cambridge. Scottish universities might be more flexible too.

The only academic neuroscientist I know actually did undergrad music, but I think she's extremely unusual!

OP Your DD may not be aware that in general scientists, including those heading to study biosciences, and the more Science based Psychology courses, tend to end up carrying on with 4 or even more A levels, partly because dropping Maths would really impact their choices and ability to keep up once at uni. If nothing else advances in Science mean that being able to crunch data is more important than ever, along with advanced computer skills. Given your DDs interest Studying Biology and Chemistry alongside Psychology and Maths would be a good combination.

Surely looking at potential uni websites would be the most useful source of hard information.

Agree abut sticking with maths, unless it's a real sticking point, itself, though. Again, check uni websites.

Studying Biology and Chemistry alongside Psychology and Maths would be a good combination.
I would suggest physics is a better fourth option than psychology. As most PPs have said, maths is really important. chemistry is critical and physics a real advantage to open up certain undergraduate natural science options.
BTW I think bright students aiming to pursue this sort of interest through the sensible option of undergraduate natural sciences are going to be disadvantaged by the policy of many schools to only do 3 A levels from the start.

So I guess that before worrying about which uni, make sure she goes to a sixth form which allows 4 ( or even 5 for the very able) subjects at the outset. A bit OT but what's happening now that AS is no longer the norm? Do kids get the option of starting 4 and doing the AS if they don't want to continue them all to A level or would they get nowt (except of course having learned the stuff, something that seems to get forgotten is the actual purpose of education!). My dd has just done AS - the maths/FM is still in two parts and the school had them do the others anyway - quite a lot intend to drop a subject now but would be pissed not to have the AS.

3 A levels are plenty, I know students holding offers for medicine & psychology at Cambridge, biochem & biomed at Oxford who have done 3 A levels. Oxford offers this year were AAA, Cambridge AAA, same as UCL. Cambridge Natsci, 4A*s but candidate had v high AS levels. Some of the UCL med candidates have a 4th in a non-related subject like Spanish, History or Latin.

Forgot to say they all have maths.

whatwouldrondo she will most definitely take 4 A levels. She is currently at a very good grammar school with a large number of girls (27-30 pa out of 93 cohort) going to Oxbridge, so hopefully they will advise her well on her choices too. In any case, I am most grateful to you all for the excellent suggestions. Maths is definitely her weakest subject unfortunately, so not sure if she would like to take it to A level, although I feel it is extremely important, I can't force her. I'll show her this thread, so she can make up her mind about it. Thanks again.

3 good a levels are sufficient for offers, but they can mean a very narrow education which will leave a student having to do catchup at uni. Choosing just 3 at the outset can limit their choices if they're not sure what they want to do or change their minds. Maths is never a bad choice ( even if they end up in arts/humanities) but if you've got a kid who wants to be an engineer, then physics is also pretty much essential, and further maths highly recommended - but that is very narrow and limits choice if they change their minds.

I'd have thought that anyone wanting to go into science who is weak at maths should try to get as much help with it while at school as they can. My dd is at a similar sort of school and maths is the subject taken by most of the girls by a long chalk.

Biggreen Universties have to stick with three A level offers because to not do so would disadvantage pupils at schools that do not do more than three, and they certainly would not disadvantage a pupil applying with only three from such a school. Of course some pupils applying with three will have proven their aptitude , particularly for medicine, by other means.

My DDs school normally encouraged pupils to aim for the better grades in three rather than stretching to four. However that was relaxed for Scientists because just three can really restrict their options. As with the OP Maths was a means to an end for my DD rather than her deepest "passion" and she did not want to drop any of her other Sciences so four gave her that flexibility.

OP If you are going to specialise in the bioscience / neuroscience side of things I stand by Psychology as a good option at A level if that is where her interest lies . It means you can skip the basic modules at degree level and move on to the more advanced ones. Obviously if you want to study Physics fine, you can pick up the Psychology at uni, whereas the Physics routes at degree level would be closed down, but in terms of the knowledge you will need to be a bio /neuroscientist Psychology will be as, if not more, useful.

I would also add that in applying to courses do not assume that you need a 50/50 split in Biology / Chemistry modules either. There are areas of Chemistry that are extremely relevant for the biosciences and others, the "pure Chemistry" modules that are not. In reality the "soft" areas of Science study, communication, ethics, etc. are becoming ever more important as advances in the biosciences push into new areas. They can be equally valuable. I think there is a tendency for Scientists to think they have to go for the "hard" options, dare I say because of it's traditionally gendered nature. Psychology, ethics, communication might all be perceived as soft but actually are equally or more important depending on where a student potentially wants to specialise. In fact in terms of the knowledge you need to be at the cutting edge of the biosciences actually you could cast the net a lot wider than Physics or Psychology. The disciplinary skills being used stretch widely, obviously into engineering, but UCL even held a conference recently with games software developers seeking their input on how to manage the vast quantities of data that research is generating......

I did 5 all to A-level, but obviously there were ASs then.

High achieving school, the majority of science-y people did maths and chemistry then biology or physics depending on preference. Lots of physicists did further maths too. We all had to do general studies but were told to pick our fifth subject for fun.

My year had a lot of medics, so a typical combination was something like bio/chem/maths/history/general studies.

Errol you are quite right about the help needed with Maths. She is going to have this next year, so hopefully things will improve. I would very much like her to take Maths to A level but would not push her as if she does not do well I would feel very guilty. In her school, probably 95% will take Maths, but she might decide to be the exception. Most girls go for Engineering, Medicine, Law, Dentistry and such like professions here.

whatwouldrondo thanks again for all your advice. I am going to thread very carefully as I do not want to put her off subjects or indeed push too hard and enforce my own view on what she should and should not do. I am prepared that she might even change her mind about it by the time she has actually sat the GCSEs. So far she is adamant, but you never know with teenagers. Currently (without even having done the GCSEs) her A level choices are Physics, Biology, English and German. I would be happy if she decides to take Maths instead of the Physics but do not hold my breath. I looked again at the Natural sciences course and it looks brilliant, so perhaps these A levels might be good enough, not sure.

To be honest and I speak as a humanities graduate with one DD studying humanities and one pursuing a career in research Science, it does sound as if your DD is actually looking at Psychology / neuroscience as an option to bring together her interest in Science and humanities. Nothing wrong with that, there are Psychology courses that have different levels of scientific emphasis (I couldn't comment on neuroscience, and lead to good careers in industry, healthcare etc.) However if you have a committed scientist then you usually know that at this stage or even before, and my DD was attracted to a Nat Sci degree because she wanted to know all about Science and not be led down a particular alley. She still reads widely and enjoys culture and art but they are very definitely second to the enthusiasm she had for everything scientific from a young age - and I would say of her Nat Sci friends she is one of those who has wider interests. On a Nat Sci course you need that enthusiasm because quite apart from Maths whether it is molecular biology or biochemistry or physical sciences (and especially pure chemistry which was carnage) it is both difficult and a hard slog.

I would let your daughter persue her own interests and if they are not in Maths and the complexities of science as opposed to complexities of ideas and human experience then that is no bad thing.....

OP, its early days yet! My DD wasn't stellar at maths when she started gces but then took off. (It can depend a lot on the specific teacher). The school will undoubtedly give some advice on A level choices when the time comes (it sounds like the sort of school which would do this sensibly unlike some horror stories we hear of on MN). TBH physics and biology without either maths or chemistry may lead to fewer options esp at 'top' (whether RG or not) unis.

Good comments from previous posters. I think if she does n't find maths easy then she is unlikely to be wanting to select physics options of a natural science undergraduate course at university since they will require a strong aptitude for maths.

However she may find maths more interesting at A level.
I think overall it would be wiser to prioritise maths over physics (assuming she is really set on German) at A level but keep an open mind for her A level subjects for as long as possible. One of my DCs became enthused during Y12 by what was the fifth choice subject.

Thank you whatwouldrondo and errol great advice really appreciate it! We'll have to think long and hard about the Maths option and do so much more research on the subject. Your DD sounds wonderful, glad she is enjoying her course! summer you are correct, it is still early days, her aptitude and interests might change. I completely agree about prioritising Maths over Physics. She is strongest at languages to be honest, languages are definitely her forte, so ideally she will combine some sciency psychology with linguistics eventually as I feel this is what she will most enjoy. She will never go the languages only route as the prospects are not great, I believe. Languages are only good as an extra and widen job options but not really as a main topic. I have an Applied linguistics degree and ended up working something completely unrelated.