How much money do students need?

[bevelino]

Eldest dd will be going to uni this year and has chosen catered accommodation. Tuition fees and accommodation costs aside, how much extra cash will she need to live on?

A friend gives her Dd £250 per month, another gives £500, and another gives nothing and says they expect dc to get a job. Dd is unable to work as uni frown upon students working during term time. I have to budget for 4 dd's (triplets) at uni at the same time and this is a serious issue/question.

Lol cross posts galore.

Proves you can't buy common sense...

AndNowItsSeven
I think they have scrapped grants for low income families and its loans now
Oxford and Cambridge and some other universities, I am not sure which, have their own grants for students from low income families.These can be really quite a lot. So it is worth asking.

OP, 4 DDs at university all at the same time!
I think about 100 a week is common enough for the term time, but perhaps 60 would just be possible. Balls, or joining a gyms aside, there are quite high costs with books, printing, food - all the very ordinary things.

I do not know about London though. I believe that is horrendous. It would have to be £100 at an absolute minimum and more if fares were needed. The accommodation there is very, very expensive too.

If they could work in the summer holidays that would help a lot.

Depending on income over a certain threshold that 9% will be paid for between 19 and 27 years, ewuating to £88,000 or over £100,000. There is no guarantee that the goalposts won't change. I'll post the links tomorrow. Can't be bothered to get lap top out now.

Why would anybody elect to pay interest when they don't have to?

They should be getting a job imo. £250 is one shift in a cafe/shop/bar a week ... There is no fucking work ethic in young adults these days it gets me riled!
First MuM
In some Universities they are told not to work during the term.
They have a lot of academic work to do and it does not leave enough time for a job at the same time.

As for work ethic, many students have been working for hours, well after school ends for the day, every day since about age ten to even get to university. Once at university there can be enormous amount of effort required to do the level of work expected.

What do you mean by £250 is one shift a week. Do you mean working an 8hr shift every day for five days? Maybe someone work like this at some universities, but at many this would mean they would not do justice to their degree.

Complete university guide illustration: an investment banker with a salary of £38k, with modest pay rises, will pay their loan plus interest off in full in 12 years, before they even reach an £80k salary. Total repayments £42k.

So why on earth you think your £100k graduate will pay back twice that in 17+ years I don't know.

Regarding paying interest when you don't have to. Interest rates are low. You'd probably have got a better return on the money you've stumped up front investing it.

Westminster type education, Oxbridge, academic degree, excellent interpersonal skills and work ethic.

I am deeply saddened that society has become so divided again.

Not as sad as those on the other side of the divide!

Beau I cannot find a single thing on Martin Lewis, or indeed, on the internet that backs up what you're saying

This coming from a household in which the both the salary figures and educational background is the same as you mention for your DS.

In fact, if you have a good accountant, you'd pay even less, as they would keep you in the lower tax bracket via a dividend scheme, thus also keeping your SLC repayments low too. So in fact, paying all the fees up front is the least sensible option on offer if you want to save the most cash, particularly if your salary is £100k+...

I'll post the links tomorrow

the fabled manana. I'll save you the trouble.

You don't stop paying it back when the debt is repaid. Google the Martin Lewis websites

www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-repay#tool

is clear that you absolutely do stop paying once the debt is repaid.

Taking the £100k salary - I've set the expectation bar a little higher and put that in place from day 1, however have been, I think, quite conservative in excluding any annual bonus - and a notional £45,000 of student loan debt, and 3.9% rate of interest - using the calculator in the above link it would take 6 years and 9 months to pay it off. With around £48,000 actually repaid.

the horse's mouth itself has the same view

www.gov.uk/repaying-your-student-loan/when-you-start-and-finish-repaying

And of course you can always pay it back even earlier with a lump sum with no penalty.

In terms of the £100k annual salary, the recent IFS report on actual graduate earnings found that around 10% or just over of Oxbridge and LSE graduates were earning at least £100k pa after 10 years.

The ONS website has lots of easily digestible info on income distribution. Helps better understand those norms

Apologies to all those I've x-posted with

Firstmum 24 that's a silly comment about young adults having no work ethic. All of my DC have worked for money during their school life and in the university holidays to supplement their funds and one son doing graduate medicine at Oxbridge has spent every Sunday this academic year working in a cafe from 8am to cover his costs. That was a spectacularly ignorant comment based on very little experience of young adults I assume.

FirstMum24 - could you let me know which cafe / shop / bar is paying £250 for one shift a week please?
I know a LOT of young people (my dc, my dns, friends dc, my dcs friends, etc), all of whom have jobs of one sort or another alongside their studies, and none of them earn anything like that kind of money. They'd like to though, so if you could let us know where it is, it would even be worthwhile them traveling from different parts of the country to earn that kind of money.

Beau.... I've had a quick google:

Median pay in the UK is about £23,000, so if you earn more than £50k you are in the top 95% of the working population and in the top 1% of the global one. If you earn more than £100k, you are in the top 1% of the UK population and literally almost off the scale in the global context

Out of a population of 60 million people in the UK, only 300,000 earn more than £100k per year, so for every rich banker there are thousands of people on £20,000 to £30,000.

So hardly the norm for students. I'm guessing if you've been used to paying school fees for your dc, then University fees are water off a dogs back, but I don't think that is what the OP was asking about.

I have just checked back in and did not intend for the thread to become divisive/inflammatory and am sorry. I originally posted about how much extra cash dd might need while at uni.

Dh and I won't be supporting a frivolous lifestyle, just the amount of money dd will need to live on, bearing in mind that it is likely we will have 4 dc at uni at the same time in a couple of years. Thank you to everyone who has posted about the amount of support they give their dc and it has been extremely helpful.

I have two at Northern city universities. They get £8000 a year each; c£3500 loan, £4500 from us. They tend to work at Christmas and in the holidays, pick up a bit of bar work etc, to fund holidays or if they overspend their budget.

They both live in fairly modest accomodation, no ensuites or suchlike, but they sociable and like going out. They go clubbing, to gigs and restaurants. They are also in a couple of societies, cook with friends, have parties, they are always doing something.

I'm pleased that they are enjoying their uni years and not being limited by lack of cash.

Hear, hear, Tinkly. I was beginning to think I was totally abnormal for actually wanting my DC to have enough money to enjoy university without worrying about money. It always seems to be the people who have some money and are expected to contribute, that do not always want to do this for thier children. Those who can get bursaries from the university will always be better off than the ones whose parents do not pay up. As we found, though, in London, the cheapest rental at my DD's university halls was £7200. Some universities have cheaper but ours did not. It is therefore not always possible to survive on £8000 a year (I wish!).

Having said that, paying for university is also very expensive if you have several children there at the same time, even in a northern city. This, however, is not the fault of the children. They can certainly try and get holiday jobs even if term time jobs are a problem. I think very many young people do have a strong work ethic and do realise that having work or voluntering on their CV is a big plus for employers. Some combine that with a Masters in a specialist area. There are plenty of jobs that recruit people who have not worked in a cafe or been a check-out operator. Sometimes it is best to get work experience or an internship in the area of work you wish to pursue and working in a lower leel level job is not much use at all. My DH recruits Civil engineers. He would not be very intereted in cafe work. He is much more interested in the ability of the young person to do the job he needs and this means being a good engineer. I think lots of employers view applicants in this way.

bevelino. Please do not worry about the thread! What someone calls frivolous (clothes or playing sport?) is very important to someone else. We are all different and the thread shows this. Therefore you just have to talk to your children and see what they feel they need and come to an arrangement that suits both of you. As you can see from all the posts, this may be constructing your own computer or going to balls. I think most of us though would not like to think our children could not pay rent or buy food and were crying at university because of money worries. There is a wide gulf of "needs" and you know your family best, not us. The thread does give you an idea as to what the expenses might be, it is up to you and your DC to decide what is applicable to them. Sometimes DC have their eyes opened at university and do join clubs and want to socialise so their expenses are a bit higher than anyone thought. You never know, they may actually want a new car for travelling to and from university - yes some parents provide this too! (Not me!)

For your triplets plus 1 is there any way that more than one will go to the same university?
If so they could maybe share accomadation which could work out much cheaper, even if just for the first year

Another option especially in London is becoming a type of au pair. Some people will give free accomadation and food and small 'pocket money' in exchange for some childcare. I know of a student who did this, the children were 10 and 11 so didn't need care as such but parents just wanted someone in the house if they went out in evening or worked late mainly. She only did 3 nights a week 6pm-midnight with the occasional 24hr care at weekend ( maybe 4-5 times in a year), in exchange for free accomadation, food and £60 a week.

I think many people are totally in the dark about what the costs are likely to be. I was out with friends at the weekend and we were talking about this. Two of the women were telling another not to give it another thought: they get plenty in loans, grants and bursaries. Er, not if you are over a certain income threshold they don't, (and my friend definitely is).

In my observation, the kids who get jobs at Uni tend to be the ones without grants and extra funding: certainly the kids of the two women who get grants and bursaries don't, one has never had a job in her life. I wonder if this will do them a disservice in the long run.

My kids like a nice lifestyle but are happy to work to fund it.

My daughter and I went to an offer holders's day and there were a number of families saying that they were only looking at universities where cheap accommodation is available. They were also limiting their child's choice to universities which were easy (& cheaper) to get to from home. I have friends who are involved in improving access from low progression areas and have raised this with them, I think administrators can be unaware of students not even applying to courses in London due to housing costs.

Hear, hear, Tinkly. I was beginning to think I was totally abnormal for actually wanting my DC to have enough money to enjoy university without worrying about money.

Oh for goodness sake bojo, I've already said upthread (and about a billion times before on this forum!) that we've committed to paying our kids' rents, and they can live on their loans - rents may be more or less than Tinkly's £4500 (I've budgeted for £6K and instructed them accordingly!), so some years I'll be paying more than her, yay for me, what a great parent.

Of course no one WANTS their children to be worrying about money! What I personally really don't think is anything to do with me is what their money pays for - it's not my responsibility for them to have an iPhone, or to have funding for balls, £400 pa sports clubs, expensive clothes, or anything else - if they want that stuff, then they can plan their own budgets. This is part of why I like that my kids have their loans to live on: it's their money, their responsibility, nothing to do with me and they are free to spend it as they wish.

So when people ask, how much money will they need, and other people respond with, well, I pay for their phone and their car and transfer them money each week and top them up when they want to do something extra - - - - I just don't think those are actually answers to the question. I think that the students need to be learning to be the young adults that they are, and to have someone involved in your financial affairs to that level seems a bit childish tbh.

In September, the basic loan is £3821 (dd2 just did her student finance). Her accommodation contract will be for 38 weeks. That gives a neat £100 a week to live on, assuming a summer job. Which seems like it really should be plenty.

DD got the basic loan which obviously doesn't cover first year halls (self catered). She used that towards accommodation and we made up the amount to cover the cost. We have then given her £350 a month during term time - which is approx £80 a week. We have covered the cost of her phone as it was a Christmas present and we have paid for her bus pass. She has some savings from a summer/Xmas job. For her birthday present this year, we have given her some money towards a holiday.

Rather than worrying about money I think it's a better life lesson they students learn to budget, work and save, as opposed to getting money from your parents. I am a parent now and I would like to think that I will be in the position to help my child if she is desperate, but quite honestly what good will it do her if I sent her money every month?
I had to work. I still achieved a first in psychology and went out a couple nights a week.
There is a very real danger that students leave uni and the bubble is quickly popped because oh look real life does exist and now they have to work.

I think administrators can be unaware of students not even applying to courses in London due to housing costs.

I would hope that no administrators are that blinkered, and would be really upset to see any evidence of that.

And Jean no need to worry about them, they'll be earning £100K

Jean your child may not get enough of a loan to cover her rent. Will you still refuse to send her money?

Titchy- if that happens, and any income she has from a part time job still isn't enough, then yes I will help. But I won't be setting up a standing order for £350 per month. Life doesn't work like that.

Jean - it is because of our earnings that DD cannot access the full loan! Of course we are going to help with costs because of this. Her friend from a low income family is miles better off than DD as she gets the full loan, a maintence grant and a low income grant from her northern university - in total about £10k. Of course we have a responsibility to help DD who gets approx £3,700 in total.