Exeter offers : incompetent or arrogant?

[TalkinPeace]

DD submitted her form last October
Exeter have still not had the courtesy to send an offer (the other four Unis all have)
when phoned they said

• no offers have been issued (bollocks as DDs friends have theirs)
  
• offers will be made by end of December (bollocks as its now late march)
  
• offers will be made right after the UCAS cut off date (bollocks as it was in January)
  
• offers will be made by the end of March ........
  

Exeter are arrogant liars
the word needs to go round

[HoundoftheBaskervilles]

Can I tell you something? It doesn't really matter. Honestly.

[lljkk]

Sometimes the best students get offers early & the weakest students get offers later or only after the best turned down. I don't think the Uni should confess "Actually you're one of our weaker candidates so we're waiting for the others to decide first before we might offer to you" or something that might be equally demoralising.

If admissions staff monitored threads anywhere it would be TSR!! That's so busy, no time to check facebook & reddit & MN too.

[Needmoresleep]

Orlando, UCL were very late for DS. (I finally cracked and phoned them in late March not giving DSs name and they were very helpful, explaining their target for final decisions. He was then rejected but already had LSE.)

A week is a long time in UCAS, and six months is hardly any. A week ago DD had no offers, knowing full well that 60% of medical students end up with four rejections. She felt she could not go through it again and was potentially interested in biomedical engineering. She had the right grades and subjects for Imperial who helpfully accept applications till June, plus a spare line on her UCAS form. In the end though we decided University was important, and expensive, enough not to rush into decisions. Plus after all the uncertainty she needed to forget about University entry and focus on her A levels. And a gap year could be fun. In August she could return to thinking about what subject to study and where with time for some proper research.

We have been so lucky in that despite the waits both DC ended up with what they wanted so there was no need to cross some of these bridges. I hope the same is true for you. But otherwise I would really recommend taking time over a decision so you end up with the right course (and possibly fluent Spanish) rather than any course.

[OrlandaFuriosa]

Needmoresleep and Coco, thanks so much.

He's v clear that he is only prepared to go to the places and courses he wants to, not just anywhere. Given the expense of HE, I think he is right. I really don't want to take the focus away from revision atm. And finishing a final piece of coursework. So I think clearing may be the answer, or gap year. But I shall still think extra thoughts. It's exceptionally irritating because he is rather good at his chosen subject at this level, not in your league, need more, but not bad. And I hate seeing what this has done to him.

Talking, holding thumbs for you too.

[Needmoresleep]

Orlando I doubt it is a question of which league a DC is in. Both mine were at academic private schools where aspirations are sky high. School advice is to be realistic but to also aim for the best. They get lots of support and UCAS applications are checked thoroughly so less scope for the sort of error your DS suffered (which is awful). They would not had such a rough time if they had applied for a wider spread of Universities but it worked out in the end. Their school is clear that University entrance should be considered a two year process, and plenty of DDs peers will be taking a gap year, often to have a second go at Oxbridge. I suspect this approach is one reason why private school pupils are so over represented at top Universities.

I think your DS is right. Cross your fingers for UCL, which is a great place across a broad range of humanities and sciences. Make sure you get the grades that represent your ability. But then be both realistic and ambitious, applying for the best, most interesting courses you can.

Finishing coursework is another issue here. Two finished last week and another dues at the end of the Easter holiday. Stress levels were through the roof. I ended up admiring DDs toughness and ability to keep going. in lieu of sympathy.

[disquit2]

A typical RG science faculty might take 3000 undergraduates per year. They will get at least five times as many applications as places (5 UCAS choices) and typically more, taking into account the fact that overseas applicants also apply. So at least 15000 applications and typically 20000.

The admissions team admin staff would usually be around half a dozen.

Now let's suppose that even 10% of these applicants call/emailed twice since the January deadline. That's 3000 calls in 50 working days, or 60 per day. Dealing with each enquiry takes 5-10 minutes, so one member of the admissions team would have to spend all their time fielding enquiries instead of processing applications!

It is really not reasonable to call a couple of times just to ask when an offer will be made. There are many applicants in special circumstances who need to call - for example, disabled applicants, for whom special arrangements will need to be made to support them in lab work; applicants for whom fee status is unclear; applicants who have unusual qualifications. Calling and emailing unnecessarily just slows the whole process down.

And frankly thinking that admissions staff would be reading MN and correlating threads with applicants is paranoia.

[BitchyComment]

I understand the numbers involved but I still can't see what the problem is with providing more information to applicants. If mass email are a problem for some strange reason then why can't something be posted on the University website.

Whilst all us knowledgable MN'ers may be understanding of the sheer scale of the applications process I'm not sure that your average nervous 17/18 year old will be.

If some applicants are waiting five months before they hear anything then I very much doubt that the OPs DD is the only one who has phoned to check what is happening to their application. You would think by giving some admissions updates online or by email the admissions departments might actually save themselves some time.

Some Unis manage it easily.

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

I don't know though, it's not THAT hard to send out a form email to everyone on the database who is still waiting, if you have told the applicants offers will be out by a certain date and then due to circumstances beyond your control, they're not. If your software is set up properly it should take less time than fielding a couple of those phone calls.
I have seen this from the university side as well and while I do think op is taking this far too personally, I also think a bit of forethought by Exeter could have saved a fair bit of angst among stressed applicants (because I doubt Talk's dd is the only one who is worrying).

[OurBlanche]

It isn't that simple though. OPs daughter is holding 4 offers. UCAS applications are not sorted/ranked in any way There’s no preference order and your universities/colleges won’t see where else you’ve applied until after you reply to any offers you get.

That suggests that OPs DD isn't a best match for the Exeter course. They may be holding her application until they have the majority of their responses in.

If OPs DD doesn't want Exeter anyway then she can respond on Track and all will be well.

Whatever the reasons, Exeter are not acting arrogantly or incompetently and none of what OP or her DD have been told are necessarily lies.

[JeanneDeMontbaston]

Fair point, countess.

Though I do wonder what they actually said originally, because there's a big difference between 'we aim to do x but we'll see' and 'we will definitely do x'.

[BitchyComment]

Another point is that unless you have insider knowledge of the admission procedures at Exeter it's not correct and a bit snidely to presume that the fact the OPs DD has been made to wait so long is because they don't consider her a strong student. It may be they think she is very strong and are waiting to see if she rejects them or it may just be that due to weight of numbers her application hasn't been looked at yet.

[LittlehamHums]

We always blame the alphabet. Should have had the surname Abbey.

Do any universities ever issue offers above the range quoted in the prospectus? Or is that really rare?

[OurBlanche]

Bitchy - she can't reject them until they make an offer.

She can't accept/reject on Track until all offers are in, she can only cancel the ones not yet completed which is why I asked upthread what Track is showing.

I am not being snidey at all, I am answering as an FE lecturer with almost 20 years experience of guiding students through the process. I am suggesting that Exeter may have other reasons for not having responded yet, other reasons than arrogance or incomeptence. The next offer deadline is Thursday, there will always be some offers that pop up at the last moment.

There is also the possibility that OPs DD filled out the application incorrectly - again why I asked what Track is showing. A single misplaced tick/cross checked box will do it.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

I know nothing about Exeter, but I wouldn't even assume the long wait means the answer is going to be no. Four years ago when my son applied to do History, he got offers within a week from York and Lancaster. UCL sent an offer in January (I think) - there was an extra step there because he had to do a bit of writing for them first. Warwick sent nothing at all until March - not even a holding email, as I recall - and then it was an offer. It was irritating because he couldn't accept his first and insurance places until all five applications had been processed. The only way out of that is to withdraw from the tardy place, which he didn't want to do in case they made a nice low offer that could have been his insurance. (They didn't.) From TSR, other people had History offers from Warwick far earlier in the year. There was no obvious reason why his application was dealt with so late.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

It may be they think she is very strong and are waiting to see if she rejects them or it may just be that due to weight of numbers her application hasn't been looked at yet.

Now that's a good point which I hadn't really thought of before. In my son's case, his application was made early in October, so if anybody at Warwick was trying to second guess what was going on, they would probably have assumed (rightly) that he was an Oxbridge applicant and they might have thought there was no point in making an offer at the same grades as O or C, because he wouldn't accept it as an insurance. The only flaws in this are that (a) he might not have got an offer from O or C and they wouldn't have known and (b) I doubt very much whether the hard--pressed academics and admissions staff have time to start finessing like that.

The other factor might have been that he didn't go to an Open Day at Warwick, but I can't believe that ever really counts for anything.

[stonecircle]

DS is in his first year at Exeter (and loving it). Exeter was the last to give him an offer too (though end December). He didn't go to an Open Day either Gasp so, as you say, I don't think that could have anything to do with it.

I'm a bit confused as to why the OP is so bothered having made up her mind that "Exeter are arrogant liars" - why would she want her dd to even consider them?

[bruffin]

Ds was still wating at this stage for Durham and Loughborough. Durham were no and the last Loughborough was a yes.
I really dont know why op has been contacting Exeter asking when the application process hasnt finished yet.

[BitchyComment]

OurBlance

The OPs DD can cancel her application to Exeter before receiving a decision from them if she knows she doesn't want to go there. You don't have to wait until all you offers are in.

UCAS WEBSITE 'Making Changes'

I've copy and pasted the relevant bit.

CANCELLATIONS
^You can cancel a choice or your whole application.
If it's just one choice you'd like to withdraw, you can cancel it in Track (as long as the university or college hasn't sent us their decision yet)^

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

It's not all done that way, Ohfuckaducky, but I know from the RG university where I used to work that they were very keen to try to automate as much of it as possible to speed everything up and keep the costs down. Having said that, they ran into resistance from academics who (for small courses particularly) wanted to retain as much control as they could over who they ended up teaching.

[MedSchoolRat]

Aren't admissions criteria supposed to be very transparent (published & easily accessed)? If attending open day mattered, wouldn't it be in the published admission criteria? Elsewhere I read things about admissions that sound like people think it's a secretive black box procedure who gets in or doesn't.

I only ask because I have been involved in interviews (small part of our process). The whole admissions procedure was explained very clearly to us during training, how & who got thru each filtering step. The paperwork was all subject to freedom of information requests (from students). We are very mindful of FOI transparency. Everything had to be documented. We interviewers are also graded; anyone with anomalous decisions might get chucked out. There is retraining every few yrs.

Maybe because we get ~1500 applicants, selection has to be an efficient and consistent machine.

The only black art I could see in whole process had to do with how much anyone trusted predicted grades to mean final grades.

[BitchyComment]

MedSchoolRat. That's what I always believed but there was recently a thread on MN about Edinburgh University that made me doubt it. Medical School application procedures seem to be the most transparent, although some Schools are more transparent than others. . Like you say there are dozens of FOI results for medical school applications so they have to be fair and be seen to be fair.

I think the thread about Edinbrugh University was deleted as the OP had given out wayyyyyy to much personal information and someone claiming to be from Edinburgh Uni admissions came on the thread. It was all a bit odd but the upshot was that it appears that not all university places are awarded fairly. Perhaps someone else remembers the details a bit better.

[LittlehamHums]

Predicted grades always turn out to be wrong in our school as it is just a guess. It makes it tricky to know where they should apply in the first place. If only we had a sorting hat.

[OurBlanche]

Bitchy... that's what I said! she can't accept/reject on Track until all offers are in, she can only cancel the ones not yet completed which is why I asked upthread what Track is showing.

The procedures are transparent, just a bit complicated with all the variations. That's why Which, and others, have websites devoted to it, why Track exists etc.