Has anyone got an offer from UCL for Sept 2016 start?

[katemiddletonsothermum]

DD has applied to UCL. She already has 4 offers but UCL is her top choice. They are dragging their heels and have not yet made her an offer / rejected her. However, in the meantime, DD is concerned that the best rooms in the student accommodation for her other choices will be snapped up as students confirm their first choices.

Anyway, I suspect DD is on the bottom of the UCL pile and I just wish they'd hurry up and reject her so that she can confirm her place at another very good uni. She won't feel too bad about that (we've talked about it) - but I wondered whether it was UCL who are being slow in sending out offers, or whether it's just DD who hasn't received an offer yet.

Her school said that they'd chase UCL up, but god knows how the system works these days .

Bobo one of my daughters has a young economics tutor for a boyfriend who has just moved from one part of Oxbridge to the other and who, although obviously clever, couldn't fairly be described as having busted a gut in terms of work. Indeed he seems remarkably chilled, especially given that he came top of his year. I'm not sure that just because your DSS busted a gut at Bristol that means it's necessary to get decent offers. I'm not actually sure how, on the back of your DSS's experience, you come to the conclusion that all universities are equal. I mean it could be true but I'm just not sure you have the evidence to sustain it.

I have heard that the economic courses vary quite a bit in the difficulty and intensity of maths, for example Bristol or Durham are lighter in maths compared to LSE, Warwick and Cambridge. That means the graduates would have different skill sets.

Ds (LSE reject) applied for History at LSE - he thought , in hindsight, even for that course his Maths was not strong enough. All worked out well for him but in hindsight LSE was a poor choice for him. (not LSE a poor choice per se of course - DS made a possibly ill advised choice given his background). Anecdotally, his friends aiming for economics / PPE type subjects typically went for LSE , Warwick , Oxbridge as aspirational choices. Pure anecdote

sendsummer - Bristol is relatively heavy on maths, Durham is lighter. Though a lot of the difference will come down to individual choice of options. If students want to apply for particular Masters courses or finance/City jobs they need to take more mathematical options.

Molio - and why would your DD's BF's example be more valid than my DSS1's? Anecdote vs anecdote?

DSS2 (UCL) also seems to do less maths than DSS1 (Bristol) in first year Economics. Not that it will make any difference overall since DSS2 will, like his brother, choose all the most quantitative options despite any suggestions on our part that essay writing skills are also important...

Bobo, I don't agree. One reason employers value Oxbridge degrees is that graduates have effectively been pre-screened. They got through a very competitive University application process and then were able to hold their own against similarly qualified peers through a three year degree.

DS was a credible but not outstanding Cambridge candidate. One advantage of not going to Cambridge was that he could expect to be much higher up the year group elsewhere, and thus graduate with a "better" degree. This seems to be the case. He says the course he is on has a much better flexibility than the one at Cambridge, he has access to some very well regarded academics, but can't know how much he would have gained from Cambridge's college and tutorial system.

He will probably end up in the same place from having been towards the top in London as he would have been being much lower in the year at Cambridge. However this is a course with an awful lot of options so weaker mathmaticians soon steer towards accountancy, finance or history options, so the pace on maths courses remains fast. (Quite a lot of maths options are shared with actuaries or those taking maths with economics.) This might not be the case at somewhere less selective, or with fewer options, with a wider ability range in lecture room.

DS works hard, very hard. But this is because he wants to keep postgraduate/reasearch doors open. I have always admired the Molio brood and their seemingly effortless transition from school to Oxford to other glittering prizes such as bar scholarships. I am glad potential partners exhibit similar characteristics. (I look forward to posts about Molio grandchildren.) A really clever student would probably not have to work so hard to absorb the same course content.

Hocus, UCL is seen as close behind the ones you mention for would be economists, and probably above Warwick for EU/International students.

Needmore - be in no doubt there was no real substance to my last post about Economics . It was purely the impression I got from chatting to Ds and his friends. Interesting about UCL for Eu/ International - is that because London is better known abroad so they would rather study there or London more recognisable to employers abroad?

I'm not convinced that the experience of a Cambridge economics fellow can be dismissed as pure anecdote Bobo.

NeedMoreSleep - of course Oxbridge is more selective on entry than other universities and therefore it stands to reason that graduates are likely to be more successful, on average, when applying for the most competitive postgraduate courses and jobs. But that does not mean that graduates of other universities are excluded from those courses/jobs, providing they perform very well at undergraduate level.

I haven't spoken to your DD's BF, Molio. But I have spoken to Cambridge, UCL and LSE economists recently and they didn't share your DD's BF's prejudices. They were interested in top students from a wide range of undergraduate options.

Thanks Needmoresleep, I'm genuinely flattered . Obviously the main aim in all this was a quest for suitable partners, which I'm delighted to say is proving fruitful :)

Hocus, a flippant answer would be proximity to Wong Kei, the seemingly unavoidable destination for any student from east Asia.

More seriously London is very international, so a Parisian can be reassured that they will be living in the sixth largest French city, an affluent south Asian is bound to have friends and family here and a New Yorker might grudgingly admit that London offers much the same as their own city.

Interestingly London colleges seem to do well attracting ethnic minority students from elsewhere in the UK. Perhaps because in London they have access to both family and British culture.

Off topic a little but my central London DD has been grappling with the idea of leaving the familiar. It is readily acknowledged that rural child may not like the idea of such a big city, but the same applies to urban students. She wants to study medicine so faces five years somewhere. Its mainly fear of the unknown. If she did not enjoy Lancaster, Norwich or Dundee, it would be a difficut mistake, so she wants something "like London" but ideally further away. I have been teasing her about a Waitrose index. How far is the campus from a large Waitrose? Bristol pases, Warwick fails. It may be why you get large concentrations of Londoners in some places, including London.

A solitary anecdote but an international student was telling me about her friend dropping out of Birmingham. She had been allocated a flat with British students and hated both the state of the kitchen and the student drinking/party culture. In London an overseas student is not isolated in the same way.

Of course they're interested in top students from Bristol etc Bobo it's just that they're also interested in middling students from Cambridge and Oxford who've managed to achieve a good work/ life balance in their undergraduate years - you know, have fun too, not just slog. I know which option I prefer. (Of course you can also slog and have no fun on an Oxbridge course too, if that's your thing).

I didn't say the boyfriend was prejudiced, I don't know where you get that from, I merely said you seem to be generalizing from the experience of your very hard working DSS.

One thing which has surprised me from what Ds has told me is the number of firms making forays out to Oxford to talk to students etc - even 1st years. DS went to one (I think partly lured by the free chocolate and wine - no slogger, he ) I am out of date with this stuff and no other DC at different universities to compare but there certainly seems no shortage of opportunity to find out about some of these companies where he is. I am sure it is the same at other places, just something I hadn't thought about before.

Hocus, there are lots of recruitment style events at LSE, however these seem to be breakfasts. Reading MN it seems that Oxbridge seem to get evening events and more than the odd coffee or croissants.

There are several possible interpretations. Perhaps hard working LSE students are more willing to get up early. Or perhaps Oxbridge students need to be attracted by wine. (more likely obviously is that it is easier for recruiters to access the LSE at the beginning of the day before lectures.)

Banks etc often provide interesting speakers so early in his first term DS did a cost benefit analysis and decided it was worth investing in a cheap suit from M&S in order to be able to access both the food and the speaker. I suspect he got his forecasting wrong and did not give sufficient weight to the value of staying in bed.

Just to highlight something other than anecdote and put those university talks and visits in perspective this is PWC's schedule of visits and also some background on the aims of their recruitment process. Obviously not everyone is interested in a career with the big 4 or 5 Accountancy plus firms but they are "graduate recruiter of the year" and the commercial aims of their recruitment process would be common to any business who had taken the time to think it through.

They have the resources to spread the net wide for events and lots of companies probably restrict the programme to where they have people on the ground / who fancies a trip to their alma mater but no business with any sense would restrict recruitment to universities they visit.

In any case from anectdotal experience of this a London university students are going into more diverse careers than those that appear on the graduate recruitment rounds, not necessarily traditional graduate training schemes and careers but using their ability to get on in new business areas and smaller businesses.

www.pwc.co.uk/careers/student/ourevents.html

www.pwc.co.uk/careers/student/applying/ucas-tariff-changes.html

Ron are you seriously suggesting I should look at some actual facts rather than throwing out random anecdotes based on an extensive sample of 1 DS .

That's an interesting link. I really wasn't trying to say he was in a unique position - I just hadn't thought about it.

I'm not sure that a student who slogs is going to be a very convincing proposition for any university or employer. One who works really hard because they revel in their subject is more likely to appeal, surely?

I'd tend to go for a really clever student who's not too intense and who likes to do other stuff besides work but can manage to get results despite leading that relatively balanced life. With a reasonable sense of humour as well.

DSS1 went to some of those assessment days for City firms, Molio, and was quite funny about the arrogant English "I'm too clever to need to work very hard" types he met on them.

You don't have to be arrogant not to work all the time, you just have to be able to get the results and manage your time.

Also, is arrogance the preserve of the English?

"DSS1 went to some of those assessment days for City firms, Molio, and was quite funny about the arrogant English "I'm too clever to need to work very hard" types he met on them."

Bobo, I am not for a moment saying that your DSS1's experience was not true , but do you really think it is typical . We are trading anecdotes here (sorry Ron ) but I would say that DS is pretty organised (gets it from his father), knows that results don't come from no work but with a little thought the work can be done and the other stuff can be fitted in also. Now we shall see how this works out at some point but at the moment I'm not too worried if he is keeping on top of things by and large academically and also doing other things he enjoys. BTW I do not like the "I don't need to work" thing when they have been working like buggery behind the scenes. DS is pretty open that he needs to put some effort in to get good marks. He is somewhat talented but is no intuitive genius. (Did I just say that out loud about my Darling Son ) .

Hocus - the unstoppable anecdote machine

You don't have to be arrogant not to work all the time, you just have to be able to get the results and manage your time.

Molio Cross post, you've put it more succinctly than me - but I agree.

Also, is arrogance the preserve of the English?

No it certainly isn't