Has DD scuppered her chances of getting a offer at this uni??

[Curlysuzzie]

Ok where do I start, DD was suppose to go to open day visit at a Russell group uni about 2 weeks ago she booked it and everything, however we went on a last minute holiday, DD was given the choice to either stay and go to the open day and email the uni to say she can't go, DD forgot to email the uni to say she couldn't attend. We got back today, DD got a stern email asking why she did not turn up. I was a bit shocked but I can understand why they would be peeved off having a no show who couldn't at least email them to cancel. The problem is DD is wanting to apply to them, will she be black marked because of this? DD has emailed them back to say she is sorry and that she went on holiday at short notice.

The Bath Open Day sounds miserable - poor tutors and volunteer students.

DD got a stern email asking why she did not turn up.

Hmm. Ours was 2 weeks ago, and I'd rather hope we weren't doing that. You wouldn't care to PM the name of the university?

Ricardian I've Pmd you

If DD got a message like that, frankly I'd name and shame.
There are lots of Unis and 5 places on the form.

We went to the Brum open day and the check in bit was purely to pick up the bag and map
I saw people without either who had presumably
not booked
not bothered checking in

FFS its an "Open" day - not an interview

OP, whatever happens, tell your DD in future if she misses an important appointment NEVER to state it was because she forgot and went on holiday! Never. Unless of course she has already said she will be away on holiday which is a different matter. Hope all gets sorted out and good luck to her.

talkinpeace I would consider posting name of uni on here, if dd wasn't considering putting them down. But then I'm probably going to get a slating since dd was in the wrong first.

retro I know it was such a bad idea of dd to tell them she was on short notice holiday and couldn't at least bend the truth. The who thing was part my fault part DH, my DH work's away in Indonesia for months at a time, he came home a week early as a suprise, it coinsided with half term conveniently. It was my idea of a last minute bagain bucket holiday I found. I think dd got excited with the whole thing only realised when we arrived at destination that she'd forgotten about emailing uni she couldn't go, which was on the day we left. She hasn't been to a open day where they registered individuals on arrival, most of the visits she's been to have been organised by school. This particular uni dd booked online. So she never really thought it might have been a big deal. Lesson learnt though

Wasn't Bristol, was it? My DD went to an Open Day, subsequently made it one of her five choices, and then was asked to come for a second "open day" for prospective applicants - presumably those they were thinking of making an offer to.
Train fares not being cheap, and my DD feeling that she didn't need to go back for a second viewing, so to speak, declined the request. No offer was forthcoming (no rejection either, that said). She grew tired of waiting for a yay or nay, so withdrew her application to that particular uni. Someone in the know told me that unless she had attended the second open day, she would not have been offered a place. I guess we'll never know, but certainly none of the other RG institutions on her list took such an approach.

Charlton : if Bristol are doing that then they are very wrong. Offers must be made on the basis of application forms and interviews (if appropriate) only. Did the second 'open day' have an interview as part of the day? That may be a reason for rejection but, even then, in the dept I work for, we would always chase to try to rearrange first.

I am truly surprised at the attitude of some of these universities. We would never treat our prospective students in such a patronising way.

Charlton no it wasn't Bristol, DD never got to go there as it clashed with Bath open day. DD spoke to her tutor responsible for uni apps at school today, showed him the email. He was gobsmacked as its the first time he's ever come across a uni giving a prospective student, a telling off. He thinks that maybe there's been so many no shows the uni are taking a zero tolerance stance, so they could be dishing out warning letters like parking tickets?? DD school has had many successful students go to this uni. Maybe they're hoping the message will be conveyed via dd to the school as a way to inform future prospective students to either turn up or email them if they can't make booked appointments. But still, he says he's not impressed with the way they are doing it, if that's their purpose, there are better ways to remind kids to be considerate. Hes told DD he doesn't think it's personal and she shouldn't be put off applying, but he also thinks that since the dept is quite authoritarian, would she feel comfortable studying there knowing they are quite strict, not that it's a totally a bad thing but would it make dd feel uncomfortable if she wanted a bit of help as they may seem inapproachable. DD is mulling this over, the school hasn't finalised her reference yet so shes got a few more days to make up her mind.

She absolutely shouldn't have lied. If I had been given the excuse that a last minute holiday had come up I would think thats a rubbish excuse but at least they haven't lied !

I'd be more sceptical of the 'my granny/uncle/dog just died' excuses.

Totally agree Cardinal. I still remember bricking it as I'd forgotten to do some German homework that couldn't be don't on the bus (recording onto a cassette). The teacher was a dragon, and came down really hard on not handing in homework. I told the truth. I'd forgotten. She said to do it that night,and hand in the next day. I tell the truth now.

While the note was unusually harsh, and not good practice (far from it!), perhaps applicants & parents need to be more aware of the huge cost of Open Days, in staff time - for which we are NOT paid - and cash costs.

Just a general observation: I've seen demand for all bells and whistles Open Days grow over the last two decades - driven by a significant minority of parents who demand something "for their money" (a rather unhelpful view of education as a consumer commodity, which it is not). We divert precious resources of time & money to make Open Days memorable and give likely applicants a sense of the best of what they'll experience in their 3 or 4 years with us.

So when people book & don't turn up it rankles. It's waste of resources we really cannot afford. And a Saturday we could have spent "on holidays" or with our families!

We've only got the paraphrased version though Pease, so can't judge the tone of the e-mail properly. It may have been perfectly reasonable, in the context of a no show at a departmental session with fixed numbers, pre-booking and a waiting list. The people who matter most with no shows aren't even the uni staff who give up their time, but the potential applicants who wanted to go and couldn't.

I'm struggling to see why so many posters think it was OTT. It seems perfectly fair to me and I'd have been very cross if any of my DC hadn't e-mailed or phoned - it's just a basic courtesy which takes no time at all.

Incidentally, none of my four DC to get a Bristol offer went to an open day there. One DS did go to an offer holders day, but none went before. I doubt the offer/ no offer is linked to attendance any more than it is elsewhere. In fact mine haven't been to any open days at all except a single school led one and they've not been short of offers - I don't think anyone should feel under pressure to go because they think there's a link. I know that some medical schools do ask the question whether an interviewee has been to their open day but again, it clearly doesn't determine the outcome. Go if you want to but don't if you don't, or can't afford the time or money. The websites are great on the whole.

Curliesuzzie I sympathize. I think unis are getting carried away with their booking systems. We have been to 7 open days and one campus tour and seen all systems for registering. In every case people all got into their wanted lectures whether they were booked or not and some of the most stringently booked unis had half empty lecture rooms.

Exeter is ds's first choice and we loved the open day but what a palaver to get to one. The summer (June/July?) one was full by the time we thought about it (2 weeks in advance) and we were priority booking for the September one. Then we were on a countdown in the diary for that one's booking date and it too was full within hours of the booking opening - as people found on here to their cost. It was a fab day but talks were not full and I suspect the more casual approach that Birmingham had where you register (without deadline pressures) and just turn up for your prefered (unbooked) talk works just as well but maybe you could comment on that PeasePuddingCold? I feel for you having to commit to so many of these open days every year. They are impressive and I promise they are appreciated.

Dunlurkin: My daughter made Birmingham her first choice following her (very relaxed) visit to the Open Day - simply registering and then turning up. I went with her on that occasion and we were free to go where we liked and see what we wanted.
Having made her application and been made a conditional offer, she was then called for a second departmental-specific open day, (as was the case for Bristol). Again, not feeling the need to re-visit, as we had had a really good opportunity to see everything and ask questions on our initial visit, she rang the admissions dept and asked if failure to take up this offer would in any way affect her conditional offer. She was told that this would not make any difference.
She eventually went to Birmingham, enjoyed her course very much and is now doing a masters there.

Charlton well done to your dd. Thanks for the info. Ds is still deciding about Birmingham but it might be for Drama and I think there is an audition he would have to go to. I'm concerned about Bristol as it is definitely on his list and is a 2 day round trip from here so not sure he would want to attend again. We spent a very comprehensive day there for the open day. I'll warn him about it and get him to ring them and discuss, if they ask him. (He's not good at ringing anyone )

I would advise that if it's a post-offer day for applicants holding offers, then the applicant really should go. And if the applicant can't they should let the Admissions people know - both central university admissions and the Admissions tutor in the Department. Just a simple email will do.

If it's an interview or audition, pre-offer, at my place (we interview) if they don't turn up, and haven't let us know to request a rearranged date or whatever, they just won't get an offer. I'd say it's pretty much the same for Drama (I think that nationally, most Drama departments do some sort of interview or audition).

Thanks for the advice PeasePudding

Not all ds's choices will be for Drama and the other courses don't interview or mention post offer days on the websites. He knows he has to go to any Drama auditions/interviews but we are hoping the other courses don't spring unannounced offer days on us. Two of the unis are offering the course for the first time in 2016, Bristol being one of them!

Pease why do you think an applicant should go to offer holders' days in particular? DS wasted two full days going to one earlier this year where the department in question - right at the top of the ratings - put on a very poor showing indeed. It added absolutely nothing to his decision.

That was Durham/ History.

Molio, I'm sure for your kids with their exceptional results it wouldn't have mattered if they had gone to open days or applicant days but I wonder if that is the same for other less brilliant students.

My 4 DC are now all at Uni so the last few years seem to have involved plenty of open days, applicant days and interviews.

I was always a bit about the booking systems used by some of the Unis. They requested unreasonable amounts of information and often required you to set up passwords and accounts. Several didn't seem to allow you opt out of mailings or to unsubscribe completely.
We worked out that it was best to set up an unique email just for open days then bin it once the kids were in Uni.

DD had the reverse problem. She went to two open days in the summer which helped inform her as to what she did NOT want. (Essentially self standing medical schools without the additional University life.) She was then very ill over the summer so decided to treat the whole thing as a two year process, this year use her four choices, but avoid BMAT Universities and the additional work involved, and simply focus on A2s. By the time we had worked all of this out, Open Days were full so she ended up applying blind (though with some fantastic advice from people from this forum.) It was frustrating as one of her choices is within walking distance. I suggested she simply turn up, given there were likely to be no shows, but she felt unable.

It would be great if there were pre-offer applicant days as I fear DD may be at a disadvantage at interview as she has not been to an open day and so will know less about the specific course. But I suspect there will not. What seems unfair is not OP's DD being teenage-like and forgetting to cancel but the fact that room is provided for family members at the expense of would be applicants. At the first Open Day DD though she was the only one not accompanied by parents, and indeed some came with large family groups. Cut down on these, or provide family members with something else to do, and Universities could help ensure a level playing field for all their applicants.

I would advise that if it's a post-offer day for applicants holding offers, then the applicant really should go. And if the applicant can't they should let the Admissions people know - both central university admissions and the Admissions tutor in the Department. Just a simple email will do.

If the department is going to make admissions decisions based on attendance then it needs to be clear that is what is happening, and it needs to ensure that it has processes in place to deal with the access issues that raises. Are you expecting people to travel the length of the country and be there by 10am? What about students with disabilities? What about students with no money? The main effect of a university in the south of England erecting a "be here for 10am or else" barrier is to make it virtually impossible for northern applicants to attend without buying a night in a hotel and/or a peak ticket: good luck with making your case that isn't an access issue (and before anyone says it, Oxbridge provide accommodation and will fund travel for disadvantaged students, although it isn't well advertised and does act as a deterrent to some applicants.

In practice, if a department invited applicants to an optional applicant visitor day and then made admission decisions, of any sort, on the basis of attendance then it is in breach of my university's admissions code, and I bet everyone else's. There's a whole stack of things we have to do when an interview is determinative which aren't done during AVD one-to-one's (and when we are doing determinative interviews we clearly signpost those and add in the extra formality and record-keeping): slyly using AVD encounters or, worse, attendance/non-attendance would be completely forbidden.

We use AVDs to market - we're hoping people will like us, and the one-to-ones with academics are part of them - and to possibly weed out people who decide for themselves that on reflection they don't like us or our course. The attendees are offer holders who (normally) have more than two offers to choose from, and we run the AVDs in the hope that we will encourage more strong students than might otherwise do so to come to us. That's it. We might piggy-back formal interviews for non-offer-holders onto the same day (for applicants for whom for whatever reason application don't tell us enough) but those students go down a different track and see different people.

If an AVD isn't listed in the course prospectus as a formal part of the application process, and you have reason to believe that your application was disfavoured because of non-attendance, you should complain. Universities should not be erecting "optional, but nudge-nudge we'll use it anyway" barriers.

Reading Student Room when DS was applying for economics it seemed that UCL invited applicants to "collect" their offers. This course is hugely over subscribed but they will have a lot of applicants who will either prefer Oxbridge/LSE/Warwick or be applying in parallel to the US/Canada or elsewhere in the EU. I assume they feel it is a way of testing how keen an applicant is. I would hope that an email confirming interest but explaining that it would be difficult, because of money, disability or geography, to attend, would suffice.