What universities are these GCSEs good enough for?

[lawlawlaw]

Hello all,

We are very happy with our dd who did very well (imo) at her gcses and couldnt be more thrilled or proud of her.
She really wants to study history at uni,
DH and I were wondering what sort of university are they good enough for?

Oh, almost forgot to add what she had lol! She got 6a* and 6a from a comp.

Thanks:-)

My son's just finished his history degree. He had no history-related work experience at all to mention in his UCAS application, bar a small amount of volunteering in his school archive (I suppose that's a far-from-stealth boast , given that very few schools have an archive). He got five offers out of five applications in spite of this.

Still worth getting a job or work shadowing, obviously, given its importance when it comes to applying for a job after university.

Yes mayfly66 I have seen empirical evidence, and that evidence has been explained at length to myself and colleagues by someone in a better position than anyone to know - a top head teacher who advises the government and who knows pretty much everything there is to know about education. He was involved in recent appointment of the head teacher at Eton, so he's fairly well respected all round.

It was arguable that for those schools doing GCSEs in modular form at a time when grades were at their highest, IGCSEs were tougher but certainly it's never been the case that GCSEs taken as linear were the easier option. If you look at what happens to school's results each time IGSEs were introduced, the evidence is clear as to which exams, by definition, must be the easier :) It has been done to death though mayfly and is very, very trivial in the grand scheme of things.

My aren't you overly sensitive and opinionated! Delightful.

All irrelevant Peteneras because obviously Molio knows best!

I know molio disagrees but having discussed this with a lot of educationalists and having had twins go through both systems this last two years, I still say it's tougher to get an A* at IGCSE than in a linear GCSE.

But that's not the main reason selective independent schools go for them.

Those reasons are that teachers like the syllabus more, that there is a lot less state interference, that there are no ISAs, CAs etc. this late point allows more time spent off curriculum which in turn makes life more interesting and makes for better sixth form grades.

Yes SGADM but that's unimportant because in the grand scheme of things it's very, very....trivial!

TBF I don't think it's a big issue.
I don't think my DDs As are worth a whole lot less that DS As.

I just think they were easier ( in some ways) to come by. And that DS is better prepared to enter sixth form ( though this may be due to other factors too).

How on earth do you get that I'm overly sensitive from that post mayfly?! Goodness me, that's quite a stretch! The issue really isn't important. An A is an A and the universities don't differentiate, for good reasons. And no, I'm not opinionated myself (about this :)) but I do respect the opinions of professional educationalists who know what they're talking about and who've led me very clearly through the reasons why they've got to that point. I don't feel any need to prove that my kids' A*s are better than any private school kids' because frankly I couldn't care less. As far as I'm concerned their readiness for A levels/ independent study at university, and the university they get offers from with their qualifications are the key point. But then I'm not nursing a chip!

A naive point perhaps, but a pupil can only take the exam put in front of them .As far as I can see the difference between IGCSE and GCSE , whichever way round you argue it is (it seems to me) is only enough to insert a playing card between. Different schools choose different exams. So Ds did IGCSE. Are they easier? - I don't know. It got him through to the next stage with a firm base. That's enough for me.

Oh dear, I appear to have hit a nerve, Molio and I suspect it runs rather deeper than a debate about the merits and demerits of two types of exam....It's pretty clear you're the one with the chip on your shoulder and given the penultimate sentence of your post, it's also rather obvious why.

Pre-penultimate.

I don't feel any need to prove that my kids' As are better than any private school kids' because frankly I couldn't care less. As far as I'm concerned their readiness for A levels/ independent study at university, and the university they get offers from with their qualifications are the key point.*

I believe this

Not that Molio give two hoots

As ever, Jane speaks excellent sense. The difference is immaterial for all practical purposes unless you're one of these very odd people who feel a need to prove that their kid is superior to someone else's. In which case you're really having to scrape the barrel if you're attempting it on the basis of IGCSE v GCSE :)

The pre-penultimate sentence reads: 'I don't feel any need to prove that my kids' A*s are better than any private school kids' because frankly I couldn't give a stuff'.

I don't have any raw nerves on this front mayfly and if you think I hanker after my DC attending private schools then you've got another thing coming. I think there are some fabulous educations to be had out there in the private sector, in particular Westminster, Winchester, the St. Paul's' and Eton but I wouldn't want to board my kids as a personal choice and the wildest of wild horses couldn't drag me to London. But then there are excellent schools in the state sector too. I'm supremely not bothered .

Incidentally mine are the only DC in their generation of the extended family not to be privately educated. I haven't been impressed by any of their schools - neither the exam results given the cousins' ability, or university or anything else tbh. None attended the schools named above, where no doubt things would have been different.

And I'm not trying to prove any superiority of sector via GCSE choice - since both my twins went private.

The one who took IGCSEs goes to one if the schools molio mentions, the other who took GCSEs ( except in MFL) went to a mixed ability private school.

Their parallel journeys through secondary education have been quite fascinating.

Yes absolutely SGADM. The cousins are all very close together in age, and the parallel journey here too has been fascinating. I strongly believe that the well known schools that my two nieces went to dumbed them down academically, since they're easily as clever as my own DC - indistinguishable really. I'm positive that their outcomes would have been different had they gone to the school my DC attended, but geographically it wasn't a runner. Still, post uni they're getting back on track because they're naturally very able. But that exercise in the private sector was more than just a waste of money.

Aside from suggesting that IGCSE's are more rigorous than GCSE's - a point on which our opinions may differ and the anecdotal (but probably true) observation that IGCSE's are more prevalent in Independents and a minority of State schools, I'm fairly sure my posts have not suggested any prejudice on my part for or against State or Private. Where have I asserted - or even inferred - that my DC is better than anyone else's? I made one reference to a friends child and that was merely an example in response to an earlier post. You, on the other hand have been quite explicit in your opinions and clearly have an issue with private education which you have exploited through using my relatively innocent remarks about two types of exam as a proxy to argue your ideological opposition. You really should try to get over it and "live and let live"...

Interesting though it is to flush out yr prejudice, I would be genuinely interested in your view as to why the Independent sector "dumbs down" bright kids - as you stated - and how you reconcile that view with the disproportionate number of Independent school pupils at RG/Oxbridge?

mayfly in none of my posts have I ever indicated on any thread any prejudice against independent schooling per se, but I'm experienced enough to recognise that while some is excellent, other private education isn't great. Obviously some independents are dire, but it's also true to say that the glossy prospectuses and extravagant claims of some of the middling schools costing £30,000pa don't quite match the reality. Of course some schools in the sector are outstanding and I'd have been delighted to have my DC educated there. I'm not sure quite how that's prejudiced . It's not the first time I've said it either, so I assume you're just picking a fight which hasn't even the tiniest foundation, so you won't get very far :). And of course I'm easily able to tell what level of natural ability my nieces have, and compare their results and university destinations to my own DC who're exactly their gender and age. There's no doubt that their education has not been all it should have been, especially given that it was 'selective' and cost an arm and a leg.

Also, obviously, since you didn't mention your own DC in your post, you weren't one of the odd people I was referring to - but there are plenty about....

Thank you, Molio. I wasn't picking a fight, quite honestly but just as you have identified odd people who do harbour prejudices so I had - perhaps unfairly - inferred such from your postings. If I misunderstand you then that's my mistake...

I happen to agree with you that there are good and bad in both State and Independent but I get royally upset by those who have ingrained prejudice either way.

I accept your explanation and I appreciate your perspective.

The private schools really have done a superb job of convincing their customer base that IGCSEs are harder, thus better, than GCSEs (not equivalent, no, the claim is always harder thus better - I have several colleagues who inform me on a regular basis that since their DCs are doing IGCSEs their qualifications will be 'better' than my own DCs qualifications). I suspect the truth is that they are just different, perhaps harder in some ways perhaps easier in others. SGADM refers to the absence of ISAs and controlled assessments. For some kids (such as my DS), that would make IGCSEs harder, for others (such as my DDs) it would make them easier.

There is however no getting away from the fact that some state schools have introduced IGCSEs for their lower sets because the outcomes are better at the C/D margin. I would imagine that wasn't exactly the best news some private schools ever had...But most private schools aren't looking at the C/D boundary for their pupils so it's understandable that they don't focus on that issue.

It would be interesting to know if kids with comparable grades at GCSE/IGCSE do equally well (or poorly) at A level.

Well I accept that different DC react differently to coursework. There is no doubt that teachers across the country have predicted a huge drop in grades when it disappears from GCSE.

I doubt they're all making it up !

Course work ( CAs, ISAs etc) were a very easy way to bank marks for my DD. I bet they were for kids at Colyton too!

And it meant going into an exam knowing you'd already helped your cause. Whereas IGCSEs really were do or die on the day.

Whether it will make a difference to A levels, well I will see, won't I?

I hope not. But despite getting more or less the same grades in their recent exams, DD has definitely not had the broad off curriculum experience to date, that DS has had.

Maybe that will pay froward to A levels/pre u, I can't say yet.

I suspect this first term of L6 is going to be a rougher tide for her.

Rougher ride...