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Higher education

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Original poster

University costs for expats/international?

74 replies

EvaCH · 17/08/2015 08:53

We are British expats living in Australia, and DD wants to apply to university in the UK (she wants to read philosophy which isn't really done in Aus), however we are not sure we can afford international costs - we could afford the fees for the course (15000gbp) but she's looking at Oxbridge which has an added 7000 approx college fee, Edinburgh, or St Andrews which is around 17000 for a course, and none of this is including living costs which I would think would be a minimum of 10000.

Obviously this depends on whether she actually gets in, but how did any international people manage to afford the fees? Should we get a loan? There seems to be limited financial assistance for international student - should we tell her she can't apply?
Don't want her to be accepted and then have to tell her we can't afford it!

OP posts:
FreeCoffee · 17/08/2015 16:16

The international fees for UK medical schools are over £35,000. Shock

Weebirdie · 17/08/2015 16:22

UK nationals and certain other people who have 'settled' status in the UK, meaning they have indefinite leave to remain and no restrictions on their stay in the UK. They must also have lived in the UK for at least the 3-year period immediately before (and including) the 1st September before the course starts. "

And those 3 years must not have been for the purpose of education.

Some of my Anglo/Arab children went to uni in the Uk as foreign or international students and the rest went elsewhere. We had never paid in to the system so it would never have crossed our mind to try and play the system to ensure we paid reduced university fees. But I do know that many of the international schools in this region can help expats play the system and provide them with letter templates they used to try and get the 'home student status' so it can be done but just how apart from the letter I honestly dont know.

How to afford the fees? Well we always knew what we wanted for them and putting away their fees was always a priority. It was hard but as much as my husband has let us down really badly in other ways he made sure they all had really good educations.

FreeCoffee · 17/08/2015 16:42

I've heard of families who bought a small flat somewhere cheap in the UK which they visited occasionally so that they could get their kids into U.k Unis with home fee status. Angry

We definitely weren't playing the system - we just happened to be on overseas expat contracts for a long time. We have more than paid our way in taxes Blush

Weebirdie · 17/08/2015 16:47

We definitely weren't playing the system - we just happened to be on overseas expat contracts for a long time. We have more than paid our way in taxes

I wasn't insinuating you were. Honestly. Smile

I do know there are ways it can be done but usually when its done people have managed to leave a paper trail in order to be able to say ................

I've heard of families who bought a small flat somewhere cheap in the UK which they visited occasionally so that they could get their kids into U.k Unis with home fee status.

I think the authorities are up on this kind of thing nowadays.

spinoa · 17/08/2015 16:48

FreeCoffee, only a very small fraction of British expats who were working abroad in the three years prior to the course starting are granted home fee status. Your case is unusual rather than the norm, although any expat family which is working for a British company, on temporary contracts, has strong links to the UK, spends lots of time in the UK should definitely explore whether they could be considered ordinarily resident in the UK.

FreeCoffee · 17/08/2015 18:22

Spinoa I contacted a fair number of Uni to try and get them to confirm that my DS would get home fee status and all of them agreed quite easily.

I've known lots and lots of expats from the UK over the years, most of who I would guess would be eligible.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 17/08/2015 19:38

OP, this link is to Edinburgh University definition page (will be the same across all Scottish Unis). It is very clear that ordinarily resident includes settled status.
www.ed.ac.uk/student-funding/tuition-fees/fee-status

However, it may be some ewhat trickier to determine if DD is ordinarily resident in Scotland, or rUK...

spinoa · 18/08/2015 08:38

I've known lots and lots of expats from the UK over the years, most of who I would guess would be eligible.

And as an academic I've taught lots of children of expats over the years and most of them were not eligible for home fee status. I would say that it is very rare that a child whose family have emigrated to Australia, Canada, the US is eligible. Those families who get home fee status tend to be working in places like Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong on non-local temporary contracts.

FreeCoffee · 18/08/2015 09:36

I would say that it is very rare that a child whose family have emigrated to Australia, Canada, the US is eligible. If your family have emigrated then clearly you wouldn't be eligible. Confused I'm talking about people who are out of the UK on work secondments.

The point of my initial posts was to highlight the fact that the 'three year' rule doesn't always apply.

Nolim · 18/08/2015 09:58

FreeCoffe i agree that the 3 year rule does not mean that you need to be present in the uk for 3 years straight, if you are abroad in a short term assignment then i pressume that is fine but i thought you were abroad for 13 years and returned 2 years before your child started uni. So those 13 years you were living abroad you were considered an ordinary resident of the uk? All the expats i know are considered ordinary residents of the place where they live and work. If i recall correctly to be an Ordinary resident has to do with taxes and the expectation to stay there, not where the company headquarters are.

FreeCoffee · 18/08/2015 14:14

I think the decision as to whether an overseas contract enables you to claim that you are ordinarily resident in the UK can be based on a number of things. Its not to do with tax as some countries insist you pay tax locally and it's not to do with the length of the contract.

My DH works for a large engineering company and his unique skills (trying not to out myself) meant his company needed him to work in a number of different counties including the U.S, Australia, South Africa and Hong Kong.
We were always going to return to the UK, we were always paid as expats (housing, cars, education,yearly flights home, health care etc) , pensions and contracts were UK based and our status in the various countries we were working in was that of an expat worker. The fact that it ended up being 13 years is irrelevant.

The only thing that I thought might have caused an issue was the fact that we had sold our UK house a few years before we returned home - however, had it been necessary, this could have been easily explained by the fact our family had grown in size a lot whilst we were overseas and that we didn't want to buy in the UK until we returned as we didn't know where we would be based in the UK ( my DHs company have offices in Scotland and UK).

We may have been an unusual case in that our posting was for a long time but all the Uni's we contacted were happy to award home fee status to my son. We had to provide some extra information to a couple of them but it was straightforward.

One thing that I found frustrating was that each university makes its own decisions about whether a student is eligible for home fee status. It doesn't seem very efficient and it seems a bit daft that each Uni has its own forms and criteria. I would have thought at the very least that Unis should all agree on a standard assessment form. It would be even better if the assessment was made by some centralized body that covered the whole of the UK. ( UKcisca?).

I'm typing this on phone (tiny screen) so sorry if it's a bit garbled.

nemno · 18/08/2015 19:47

FreeCoffee Your case sounds much like ours. We were away 10 years, including for my elder DCs first year. But my 2 DC started 7 and 6 years ago. Each university interpreted the rules differently and came to different conclusions eg my DC1's friend was home student status at her 'firm', LSE but overseas at her insurance, York. But I think it is all done centrally now.

Some expats went/go to extraordinary lengths to gain home status and I really do wonder how they got away with it, I know absolutely that some should not have. But I think this is harder to achieve now. BTW our status was never in doubt and legitimate.

UptheChimney · 19/08/2015 09:26

A) There are some very good universities in Australia: I've examined PhDs from there. You couldn't go wrong studying Philosophy at the University of Sydney, for example.

B) I doubt you'd be seen as "ex-pats" after living in Australia for 10 years: more like migrants.

Do you still own a house in the UK? Is you reason for being in Australia a posting for your job? Or did you leave a job in the UK to take up a different job (ie not with the same company or an Australian subsidiary)?

Do you still pay any UK taxes? If not, basically, you migrated to Australia.

UptheChimney · 19/08/2015 09:30

DD has looked at the course at ANU and Notre Dame (will certainly be applying to ANU), however most places (Macquarie, Queensland as far as we know

ANU's OK -- it's a mostly research/postgrad university. I wouldn't touch Notre Dame, but why not Melbourne, Sydney or UWA (in Perth)? I've examined humanities PhDs from all those universities: they're well up in international standing.

The structure of an undergrad degree in Australia is a little different from England - more like the US or Scottish or Canadian system. They do a wide range of subjects in first year, but narrow it down in subsequent years.

Nolim · 19/08/2015 09:33

The structure of an undergrad degree in Australia is a little different from England - more like the US or Scottish or Canadian system. They do a wide range of subjects in first year, but narrow it down in subsequent years.

Sorry to derail the thread but how is it in the uk? You specialluze in one area from the begining?

UptheChimney · 19/08/2015 09:34

Weebirdie's right about "paying into the system" -- the fees charged to non-EU students are a much better indication of the actual cost of a university education. The £9k fee is still a subsidised fee. Subsidised by UK/EU tax payers and those living and working here. If you're not a UK tax-payer (or EU tax-payer), you're playing the system ...

UptheChimney · 19/08/2015 09:36

Nolim - generally, yes. Not in Scotland, and not in some English/Welsh degree programmes eg in a Combined Honours degree, you read, say, English and French. Also the new Liberal Arts degree programmes require you to take a slightly wider range of subjects in your first year.

The US system is, AFAIK, the most wide ranging, with "good" universities requiring a range of modules taken across the sciences and liberal arts, before undergrads "declare a major" in their Junior (penultimate) year (I think).

Nolim · 19/08/2015 09:38

Chimney one could argue that if you are a eu taxpayer but not uk taxpayer you are not contributing into the uk system.

Nolim · 19/08/2015 09:41

Thanks for the info Chimney. I am familiar with the us system but not the uk system.

MyNewAccount · 19/08/2015 12:37

UpTheChimney Not sure if your playing the system comment was aimed at me [conused] (I'm FreeCoffee with a new name) but if you are working as an expat in some countries you have to pay tax as a local and that can even include paying tax on income received from UK based savings. There is no way around this even if you are employed on a 100% legit overseas posting. (as we were)

We have had years where we have had to file tax returns and pay tax in four countries Confused

We were not playing the system and were 100% open and honest about our circumstances.

You don't need to worry about how much tax we pay -it's kazillions-

Anyway the point of my posts was to highlight that there is incorrect information being given on this thread.

UptheChimney · 19/08/2015 16:54

No MyNewAccount (I think we all need new accounts now don't we? I may have to disappear soon Grin ) I wasn't referring to you at all just picking up on WeeBirdie's comment about people who are, to all intents and purposes migrants, not ex-pats, and thus playing the system. Your case is clearly an ex-pat situation from the details you give. The OP hasn't given us enough information to know whether she is another one. 10 years in Australia, with no connections back to the UK sounds like migration to me, but the OP may still have property & jobs back here, in which case the substantive connection to the UK would be easier to demonstrate.

But I do I think the OP's DD needs to do her research about studying philosophy in Australia a little better, actually. AFAIK, there are some very prominent Philosophy professors in or from Australia: just off the top of my head, Peter Singer, Elizabeth Grosz are two people whose books I've read who I know are writing in or from Australia.

MyNewAccount · 19/08/2015 19:05

UpTheChimney Ok, sorry I got the wrong end of the stick there BlushThanks

You are right that it's not possible to hazard a guess as to the OPs DD fee status from the information supplied by the OP.

pretend · 19/08/2015 19:09

My DN is starting a UK uni in September and has been out of the UK continuously for the last ten years.

However, because she is a British citizen she pays the same fees as a British resident student.

Nolim · 19/08/2015 19:12

Pretend there have been links above about citizenship not being enough to guarantee resident fees. Has she been living in the eu perchance?

pretend · 19/08/2015 19:15

Yes EU sorry. I didn't RTFT Smile