Do BTECs really prepare you for a degree? Will dd get in anywhere with this mess of a mix?

[Whattodoandwhy]

Dd has been doing a BTEC level 3 for her first year of sixth form. They have recently cut a load of courses due to lack of funding sad

The BTECs they now offer are completely different, and she's decided on one that in all honesty, I think she'll probably hate (the first was outdoorsy, this one is desk-based). So her second year will be a different level 3 BTEC to the first.

Out of the blue, having been really enthusiastic about looking for an apprenticeship at the end of it, she's now decided she wants to go to university. Not to study anything in particular, just for the party lifestyle (her words) hmm

Pre A Levels we had the big conversation about uni versus everything else. I wanted her to go for uni, but now? What chance does she have?

I'm not convinced the college she's at is telling me the truth about the BTECs either.

Does it really work as 1.5 BTEC Level 3 is a stand alone qualification? Or is it downgraded? If she has two 1.5 BTECs at level 3, is that still equivalent to one level 3 points-wise?

I'm very concerned. Dd is painfully lazy, but bright. She literally sat down with her tutor and did the bare minimum to scrape a merit this year.

There's no way she would be working at uni standards. She started on A Levels and switched because it was too much work. I told her that if she was considering uni, she would need to be working towards distinctions. She hasn't.

Any advice on where to look? I would support her 100% if she came to me with a uni course that empassioned her. But she won't even look online to see what courses she could do.

I've posted in education too. I wanted to gauge if HE is even possible without her doing an access course down the line (probably the best route for her i feel).

What exactly is the BTEC qualification she currently has and is planning on doing this year. They come in different sizes and attract different UCAS points. The following are available in the subject I teach

Certificate is equivalent to AS and is made up of 3 units
Sub Dip is A2 equivalent
90 credit Dip is the 1.5 (A2+AS)
Dip 2 x A2
Ext Dip 3xA2

There are a large number of unis that accept BTECs either on their own (Ext Dip) or in combination with other qualifications (including Durham!)

My own DS did start AS and after the year failed miserably as, like your DD he was bone idle, he then enrolled onto a BTEC course, and has just finished his first year at a good uni. He has reported that in terms of his fellow students there is a mix of BTEC and A Level backgrounds and they are working well together; the BTEC students have the upper hand in the group work, presentations and referencing, whilst those who have A Levels have the upper hand when it comes to large essays. They have helped each other to build up on the skills they all have missing and my DS finished 1st year on a high 2:1

I would suggest that she looks at courses/unis that interest her and complete the UCAS application - she doesn't have to go next year, but if she applies and has offers at least next summer she will have a choice; apprenticeship or Uni

If the degree courses accept them at her grade profile then, yes, they are a fine base for a degree but they still have to up the ante when they get there.

My DD passed a creative BTEC and it has been a great base for her creative degree - in fact, on interview, her BTEC work nailed her an unconditional offer. At Uni her A level peers have a better grounding in essays but she had a better grounding in work quantity, research and technical ability. Now they have finished year 1 their skills are all on a par. However, she went into it with a triple distinction star and it has still been hard work from that base.

My real worry would be your DDs work ethic.

Despite what people say about contact hours, many degrees need a lot of independent study and they should be working full time one way or another. And it is INDEPENDENT. There will be none of this hand holding she has had at college. If she doesn't do the work then she will fail a module or at best get a 3rd class mark. Now, that might be the best thing for her and it might chivvy her up! Or, it night simply prove to be a waste of money.

She doesn't seem to have any passion for what she is doing - is that her problem? I'm not sure you can make someone have a passion and I feel for her in that respect. I'm lucky in that both of mine are BTEC type learners but also both had a real focus and passion for a subject available at BTEC. I have seen many of their BTEC peers not do so well because they simply didn't really know what they wanted to do and had picked it just to "do something". A levels are so much better for keeping options open but they are not any good for students who simply work more vocationally. Is she continuing in education when a year out working might be better for her?

It's an exdip. That all sounds positive, thanks for the info, Cricket.

I think my biggest worry was that the work to date was simply not comparable to uni level.

Did your ds get distinctions? I can't see dd bothering to do the work required.

Kez, xpost. Yes that is the issue. There's no way she's coming out of this with stunning distinctions. She doesn't buckle down. All work was completed in class with tutor standing over her (very little completed at home and that small amount was a constant battle).

At the moment it would be a complete waste of money. I think she should travel or work or take a bit of time to find her path, rather than jump in to the first course that will accept her, and fail miserably.

DD3 did an IT BTEC Level 3 extended Diploma she got Distinction Merit Merit. She is now about to go into her 3rd year of a computer degree. She has found that doing the BTEC did prepare her for university. This is mainly because she was able used to doing work on her own from doing the course work in her BTEC. She has assignments that she is supposed to work on her own. There is tutor support if needed. DD3 knows that she has to plan assignments and make sure she gets them in on time. She knew this from the first year while some of her fellow students who had done A levels didn't have a clue about working on their own.

Mum, sounds like your dd has had a lot more encouragement for independent study than my dd. I think there was a lot of spoon feeding involved. I don't think dd is in any way prepared for the level of work and study needed for uni.

Whattodo. DD3 was a bit older when she went to university as she has Dyspraxia and another learning difficulty so took her a bit longer to get there. She did a couple of other courses before finally deciding to do the BTEC. She started with BTEC First Diploma and carried on from there. She finally found something she was good at and her college tutors were very supportive. I think it helps that DD3 is always passionate about whatever she does and is particularly passionate about computers. DD2 did BTEC in performing arts. The one she did was worth 2 A levels and she also did English A level. She is very different to DD3 and very last minute. She was always being nagged for work. Anyway she got into uni and learnt to knuckle down. Yes still last minute but she did the work. She finished her course with a 2:1 degree.
Anyway what I'm trying to say is that your DD might sort herself out at university. I have found university has made my daughters grow up.

Mumeeeee i really hope it works on dd :) she's got a lot to offer, she just needs to grow up a bit.

University will probably help her grow up.

I think my biggest worry was that the work to date was simply not comparable to uni level.

That's because it isn't. It is half way between GCSE and Uni.

the BTEC students have the upper hand in the group work, presentations and referencing

So glad you said that. I tell students that I know they hate me when I insist on Harvard referencing and I know they hate referencing but when they get to uni they will thank me.

Although it is less of a fight now with referencing software.

Whattodoandwhy

Has she considered transferring to another college to continue in her first choice subject?

Sashh, I've looked at all commutable courses (within a 1 1/2 hour drive) and nowhere offers this course. So she would have to move if she were to carry on.

When I say she's not working at a decent level, I mean that she only attempted enough of the merit material to scrape a merit. She didn't even try to do anything at distinction level.

Whilst her field work is good, her written work leaves a lot to be desired. Had she attempted all the distinction level work I would be happier that she would suit Uni.

She would definitely grow up at Uni. I don't want her picking any course that will take her just for the sake of it.

Does she have a passion for this subject?

Whattodoandwhy

That's the thing with BTEC, you can work at a pass or merit level all the way through.

If she can't work independently then you are right she will find uni hard.

As a matter of interest which courses are they? With some you can have units from one subject transferred in to anther so you can still get the extended diploma.

Things such as anatomy and physiology can be very similar in Health and Social Care, Sports, Beauty and Public services even though the course titles seem so far from each other.

I might be tempted to point out to her how much uni costs. If she's not serious about it, why on earth would she want to get in to so much debt? She can easily have a "gap year", travel the world, party as much as she wants, and still have about a quarter of the debt uni will land her with.

If she wants to go, there will be somewhere that will take her. But her reasons are very concerning!

I started my first year at college with A/S Levels which I loved, unfortunately I'm not great at exams so moved on to a BTEC in my 2nd/3rd Year.

If she is outdoorsy she could do an apprenticeship at Kingswood or PGL or other outdoors provider after her A Levels which is what I did. It gives you the experience of all living together and is a lot of fun as well as getting your qualification. A lot of my friends then went on to University (as did I) studying teaching, child care, social work, paramedical science. Some of the girls went abroad and worked for Kids Clubs at Mark Warner and other holiday providers. Some went off and became Nannys and au pairs and some have become very successful outdoor activity instructors all over the World (Canada, Alps etc). I actually preferred this experience to being at Uni.

It can be difficult to get apprenticeships after you have a Higher Education qualification so I would go that route first and then Uni.

I now work back at my old college and many of the students with merits do get in to Uni but she really needs to apply herself many of them do cruise through the first year and then pull their finger out in the second.

I did an Extended Dip BTEC and my uni degree was a very practical/hands on and outdoorsy one. A lot of the A Level students struggled with certain aspects in the beginning, because they hadn't done anything practical in college, and didn't have that experience. On the other hand, for some of the textbook/theory side, the BTECs were disadvantaged. This will totally depend on the course in question though. And I don't have a clue about 1.5 BTECs!

Going to uni for the party side really isn't great though. If she isn't motivated and doesn't particularly care about learning, that's a waste of time and money in my opinion. There needs to be an interest in the course at least. That said, a lot of students do mess around in their first year and then buckle up in the second/third, when it suddenly hits them. (Sometimes a little too late if you're wanting to come out with a 2:1 or higher though!)