Are doctorates only for those who are fairly well off?

[furrylittlecreatures]

I have a BA (Hons) and two postgrad qualifications. I had to give up my career as I have a disease which appears to be hell bent on killing me. This has prompted me to review my life and look at the things I really did want to achieve in my lifetime, a doctorate being one of them. However, with no external funding available I am concerned the financing my journey will be an insurmountable barrier. Would people agree with this? Or have people achieved this without alot of money? Thanks

I guess what needs to be factored in is time. My plan was to undertake the phd whist in work and of course there was no rush. Now my clock is ticking, as are all our clocks but I see mine right there in front of me those fingers certainly are moving fast. Given that I probably won't be around in a decade and this was one of my life long goals I just wanted a shot at doing it whilst I can. I understand with my additional needs don't make it straightforward but many are not insurmountable. But maybe some are?

How housebound are you?
This may be irrelevant, but what is your prognosis about how long will you still have when you can be functional enough to work well on this?

There are a huge number of distance learning courses, independent ones that give huge flexibility about timing & can be done entirely from home.

I'm reading this thread with interest. DD is in her second year of a eng lit degree and her ideas are to move forward into an MA and into a ph.D because she hopes to become a uni lecturer. What are the chances of her getting funding in her field?

It depends on a lot of things - I think you really need a good first for a chance of funding for the masters, and it does make a difference how prestigious the university you're at is. It's also a good idea to apply to lots of places for a chance at it. After the MA she'd then apply again for the PhD, and usually you would want a distinction in the MA for PhD funding.

I'm not saying no one with a 2:1, or without a distinction, ever gets funding, it's just that is where she should be aiming.

Bear in mind, if she wants to be a university lecturer, she won't do it off the back of a PhD (she probably knows this, but just in case). She'd usually expect to do the PhD, publish alongside it if at all possible, teach alongside it, and then get a postdoc. First postdocs are usually quite poorly paid and short. Then another postdoc, maybe two or three, and then eventually she'd have enough experience (and, ideally, have published enough to satisfy REF, if that's still around then) to apply for lectureships.

Thank you Jeanne it sounds like it will be a fairly precarious path. Makes me nervous! She can get a good degree, and she's at a RG uni in London. It sounds as though the whole process, if it goes according to plan could take 10 years, from the date of beginning a BA. gulp

Yes, it usually would take at least that long. 3 years undergrad, 1 year MA, 4 years PhD (this is usual - 3 is possible), 1 year first postdoc, 2 years second ... you still might not have a firm job after ten years.

Most people I know got their first permanent job aged 30 or over.

But then, if she does get funding for the PhD, it is just like working a minimum wage job (topped up with teaching or a part-time job on the side), and that's not awful in a lot of places.

Yes, Thankyou for painting the picture. I'm thinking now that choosing a topic that would attract funding is absolutely crucial and I can only hope that her tutors will be able to offer positive guidance in that direction.

I'm sure they will. I am too junior to be a very good guide, but so far as I understand, topics that attract funding are academically good - ie., it's not about game-playing or claiming you'll actually cure cancer through the medium of literature - and fit in with the interests of the department you're doing the MA/PhD in.

Bear in mind that the job market is worse than it's ever been (and not likely to improve). What Jeanne describes is the trajectory where everything goes smoothly. But, in subjects like English, there are usually 200 plus applications for each postdoctoral position or junior lectureship. There are significantly more PhD students than posts available. Sorry to be pessimistic but I think it's important to go into a PhD with eyes open wrt employment afterwards (especially as universities are not very upfront about this issue).

A part time phd takes up to 7 years so you don't have very much time.

Funded places would only be ft anyway so probably not suitable.

In the field you are looking at (social science) it is quite common to self fund. The annual pt fees aren't that bad.

There are some good books you could pick up about doing a phd/esp from a woman's perspective.

I think it sounds like a good idea to do it for self development.

Good luck.

Albrecht I have suggested to her that she might have good prospects if she widens her range of options with regard to considering Canada and the USA. I actually have no idea if she is in with a chance at overseas uni's.. It just seems to me that there are more of them to aim for?!

Doctorates generally take even longer in the US.

A US doctorate takes 5-7 years. Also, the employment situation is worse over there: a lot of people end up as 'adjuncts', which means they are casualised labour, doing teaching paid by the hour and with very little time for research.

There are good masters programmes in the US, but if it were me, I don't think I would do a PhD there. There are loads of good place in the UK, anyway (depending a bit what her specialism might turn out to be).

Doctorates in USA: everyone works PT during Uni degrees, even (or maybe especially) at Ivy League. About the only people who don't have a PT paid job are Vets & Med students or the very rich (My dad worked as a PT janitor while a law student, cousin was a lifeguard while law student). The Masters or PhD usually students work by teaching undergrads. If you did PhD without working then it becomes possible to do in 3-4 yrs. But not cheaper than UK.

Belleview: there are 2 types of lecturer at my English Uni, Teaching & research. The Teaching ones have a lot less money but more job satisfaction if they love teaching. The Research ones have high pressure grant targets, in STEM subjects anyway. They both have to get a teaching qualification, too, like a PGCE for Univ. level. It's a long haul. MA would be good for teaching at 6th form level, mind still need the PGCE.

YeOldTrout Thankyou for that info. It's different than when I was at Uni! A teaching qualification too...wow.
I think I might start talking to her about the wonderful world of publishing...

FWIW, at my place and my previous place, you don't need a teaching qualification. I think this may come to change over time, but at the moment, you don't need one.

Thank you Andorover. Really appreciate your post. Will look into your suggestions xx

I should add that I am 50, doing my humanities masters after a completely different first professional degree back in the 1980s, am self funded with a view to doing a PhD afterwards that may or may not be possibly funded by a relevant organisation, working part time alongside, and have been taken completely seriously and on equal terms with other students by all the academics I have come into contact with, both those my age or younger who are teaching me, and those less than half my age who are being taught with me. It was on my bucket list too, and I am so glad I am following through with it, no matter where it ends up eventually. If it's that important to you, I absolutely recommend you go for it!

Alice you are right! Thanks