Will doing x3A2's after x4AS's be seen as a negative by Uni's? Would they even know?

[Lurgano]

Son doing 4AS's at top grammar. School (over?) keen that he continues to do 4A2's -- but I think that there is a risk that if he does this he will end up with a mix of A and B grades when he needs 3xA grades for the course he wants to do....and I think he has better chance of achieving this with more focus on each subject.

However do Unis like to see that 4 A2's are being taken even though the offer is for 3 grades....?

If you started the year and submitted your UCAS form with 4 A2's and then dropped one as the year goes on would you have to inform the Unis?

Oh, ds was planning on continuing with four A Levels. It was a choice between 3 + extended project or pursuing with four. He is good at (and enjoys) all four subjects - there is no stand-out bad one, but apart from maths the other three are essay subjects.

Is it an absolute mistake to continue with four?

If anyone needs more ammunition to deal with schools that have more of an eye on their results than what is best for the individual my DDs were at a private school that regularly makes it into the top 10 in the various tables and it is definitely their policy to encourage pupils to focus on doing well in 3 A2s. Even if they are perfectly capable of 4A*s they would argue that their time is better spent on keeping up with a wider range of extra curricular activities than a fourth A2. One DD did do 4 because she wanted to keep up Maths alongside the Sciences (and Maths has proved essential to her Science degree at uni) but she had to convince them that she really didn't want to drop any of her subjects because of their relevance to her ambitions plus the time she spent on a fourth A2 would be no loss to the school's sporting prowess Other DD moved for sixth form to another high achieving private school, exactly the same policy there.

They do however strongly encourage pupils to also do an extended project, because of the university relevant skills it provides them with plus the chance to manifest some in depth reading and thinking on the personal statement / in interviews.

Just read on Cambridge website that they don't give a toss for extended project except if interviewee is invited to talk about it. Liable to too much interference, apparently (eg Mum wrote it).

One of my DS did 4 Alevels at our local comp. He was adamant that he wanted to as he enjoyed all his subjects but I think he would have got better grades if he had only done three. He's till got the grades he needed but had he been aiming for Oxbridge he would have been better sticking to three.

Brenda if he enjoys all four and there's not a particularly weak one then of course it's good if he wants to keep them all on. After all, given that his offer will be based on three, he can always abandon work for one of them if he needs to ramp effort up on the other three even if he crashes in the abandoned subject. It's only a pain if the uni makes its offer contingent on any particular subject and that has become his least favourite one.

Brenda I was quite specific about why the school recommends it, and it is not because the unis consider it, apart from anything else they don't have any indication of the likely quality at that stage unless they are applying post results, and they cannot consider anything not available to all applicants. However it certainly helps to provide evidence of interests, and some detailed research and thinking on the personal statement and in interviews. And the skills they gain in research, referencing (an art in itself these days, changed out of all recognition from when most parents studied, it has to be one of the major areas in which new undergrads face a steep learning curve and get marked down because they underestimate the importance) etc certainly help once they get to university. It also, at least for now, will stand out to employers.

As long as mum doesn't write it of course......

Although I have to say that DDs school were very adept at recognising parental writing styles and throwing out all the carefully crafted coursework / personal statements etc. in favour of something the 17 year old came up with themselves. Put a few parental noses out of joint

I do know a few doing 4 A levels but that includes maths and Further Maths. I know 1 girls doing 5 (3 sciences and 2 maths) but she really is exceptional. DD1 in year 13 is doing 3 and received 5 uni offers. DD2 in year 12 may continue with all 4 but she does find the workload fine so far and is struggling to decide which one to drop. She has until she submits her ucas form to decide.

At my sons grammar over 80% of the boys do Maths -- and I expect that the 4th A level subject might well be Further Maths in most cases on reflection (which I have read elsewhere is only counted as half an A level by unis)

Next Q is - if he gives up the 4th A2 -- does he do it in June when they start the A2 course - or in September when we have the results?

Although we are 99% sure it will be maths that goes - there is a possibility that that goes well and something goes wrong with another subject during the exams which would make a decent grade overall impossible.......

Don't drop anything until after results day to keep his options open. Dd's school wouldn't let them drop anything until that point and I am sure your ds's school will probably say the same.

Further maths is considered as full Alevel for the vast majority of university courses. There are a very few exceptions such as medicine at a few medical schools.

DD is doing 5 AS and planning to drop two of them for A2 and do an EPQ on a specific topic that will relate to later specialisation

only VERY, VERY few at the college (which has over 1500 per year group) do more than 3 subjects to A2

September Lurgano, as MrsBartlet says. It's only a few weeks of school after all.

I think three is fine, however:

1. Do watch for further maths. Economics is another subject where some Universities (Warwick, LSE) like to see it but will not offer against it. That said if a child is good at maths, and well taught, taking the two A levels leaves time for a fourth.

1. If a child is interested in a contrasting subject, eg languages, music or humanities with science, and are good at it, this can add something to a CV. Best though if the subject essentially provides the child with contrast and therefore a sort of relaxation. Keeping up maths along with language or humanities can also be a positive.

1. If you are thinking about Ireland as a back-up. This can be a viable option, including for medicine. You need 4 good A levels taken at the same time.

1. A few medical schools state (if Student Room is to be believed) that they prefer candidates to offer 4 A levels.

1. There seems to be a view in some private schools that Universities expect their candidates to produce more than the minimum for competitive courses to reflect educational advantage. Eg four A levels or an EPC.

I think you are right needmoresleep in that if there is a history of students coming from a school having more than 3 A2s than that has become the norm of what they expect as these are recognisably candidates that are high achievers amongst their peers. Obviously, this would not be recommended if you were to end up dropping grades.
At the same time, I think this prob only applies to where there is often a contingent from the school that does 4 or more a levels. Thus in a school where everyone does 3 than there would be no need to do 4.

Private schools push for a fourth subject i guess because it generatrs a higher points per student score for their marketing material

Unlikely. Indeed the opposite. Schools tend to publish the proportion of A*s and As. Many prospective parents would not understand points. So having pupils take 4 could be a disadvantage.

Another reason to take 4 might be to keep a foot in two camps. A friend's daughter thought she would want to read engineering but also wanted to try economics. Or perhaps are considering medicine but want to leave doors open for chemistry, physics or engineering, where offering double maths is useful.

Doing more that the minimum also allows you to mess up one subject and still have your place confirmed, which makes the exam period less stressful. (This was DS' experience, and I don't think he was the only one relieved he had a fourth subject.)

The danger is that if you offer four subjects the University offer against those four. We know of one poor boy who wound up with a tough 5 A level offer.

School usually publish average UCAS per student ime so taking more is beneficial as is adding GS and CT.

laughingcow as I outlined in my post 12.59 on Friday most of the most sought after private schools do not push for a fourth subject, the exact opposite. They encourage pupils to focus on three, unless there are the good reasons in terms of their personal ambitions, as outlined by Needmore to do four, or more. And Needmore is talking from experience of Westminster where a lot of pupils are doing STEM/applying for the most competitive STEM courses. What most of the most sought after private schools push in their marketing literature is that their pupils get outstanding academic results X% A, X% A/A whilst still pursuing a wide range of extra curricular activities to a high level.

In fact it is the emphasis and pressure to persue the wide range of extra curricular activities which is as out of step with university requirements as the push for four A levels is in schools with an eye on their results rather than the individual. Not every pupil is the all singing, all acting, national sports hero who plays bassoon to Grade 8 and is currently standing for parliament they actually do cover extensively in their marketing literature ......

Titchy Most publish their results terms of %A*\A and subject tables with numbers at each grade for each subject eg www.westminster.org.uk/life-at-westminster/academic-life/results
spgs.org/academic/results/a-levels/
www.nlcs.org.uk/781/senior-school/exam-results/sixth-form

Etc.

Titchy Sorry you may have been referring to most schools, state and private where as I am focused on policy and practise in sought after private schools to provide ammunition to parents whose children are being pressured to do four when there is no good reason for the individual, by schools that are caught up in a results arms race.

Inter alia the Westminster stats give an interesting illustration of the grade inflation that happened post 2000 but which seems to have settled down. What is less obvious from the figures is the occasional odd grade, particuarly in humanities. Given the increase in A A A offers from top Universites (often Cambridge but including Manchester, Imperial and elsewhere) taking four helps spread the risk.

Statement from one of the Heads who blogs......

"Currently, as AS is half of a full A level. When A levels are reformed, AS exams will not relate to A levels at all: they will be separate, stand-alone qualifications (the government has reiterated the expression ‘de-coupled’). LVI students at LEH will not take AS exams, rather they will focus on the full A levels by selecting four A level subjects to start with (or five if they are taking Further Maths). In UVI they will either continue with all four (five), or choose to focus on three (four) of these, having had an enriching and broad curriculum experience in the LVI. This (as well as her LVI exam result) will be reflected in the girls’ UCAS references. In addition, many of the girls will research and submit an Extended Project Qualification (EPQ), counting for half an A Level."