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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Are decisions about Higher Education 'all about the course'?

34 replies

KatyMac · 27/03/2015 20:04

Is it all about the course when you decide or does the establishment or the accommodation or the travelling make a difference

DD is currently deciding & for me it's a complex balancing act between all of these things and DD's preferences

But one college is particularly prestigious & friends are saying to her "choose that one" despite cost of accommodation, distance to get there, how each course differs slightly

Does it matter?

OP posts:
LIZS · 27/03/2015 20:15

No course is worth being homesick or bankrupt for but then you really do have to want to learn what a being offered or it could be a very long 3 years or so.

Original poster
KatyMac · 27/03/2015 20:42

One means a largish loan, another a ridiculous journey; I think compromising on different things is sensible

It's confusing - I only got one offer for Uni Grin

OP posts:
2rebecca · 27/03/2015 21:05

When I decided there were several unis that were much of a muchness for the course, one maybe was harder to get in to. I loved the atmosphere of the one I went to at interview and firmed it although it was probably the easiest to get in to and gave me the lowest offer. I loved my time there so did well.
With my son more recently he looked at how well rated the uni was, all the unistat stuff, what people he knew a bit older who did the same course thought, went to visit 6 different places to get a feel for the area and chose one which had a good reputation but where he fancied living for 5 years and where he could do his sporting hobbies.
It doesn't come top in any league tables (although probably is top for Scotland) but employment statistics are good and he's enjoying himself.

Original poster
KatyMac · 27/03/2015 21:29

Oh I hadn't thought about hobbies (she will be too knackered for hobbies)

So I need to find the best Ballroom teaching close by - Hmm that could be hard

OP posts:
2rebecca · 27/03/2015 22:10

My son seems to spend as much time on his hobbies as on his studying. He comes from a family of people passionate about their hobbies though.
It's a good way of meeting people and he doesn't seem to have been short of friends.
Suspect many of the unis do have ballroom dancing.

Original poster
KatyMac · 27/03/2015 22:13

She's going to Performing Arts college - it has 35+ hrs contact time, mainly dancing

But not Ballroom/Latin Grin

She did a foundation this year & is normally in bed by 8 or 8:30

OP posts:
ShotgunNotDoingThePans · 27/03/2015 22:31

I know DD's school have advised them to concentrate on the course above all else - within reason, obv. The curriculum needs to engage her attention fully, since she has to study it for three years.

TaraBoomDeAy · 28/03/2015 09:30

My DC are all doing 4 or 5 year degrees. That's a lot of years living in one place - I do think that the area matters.
I also think good accomodation and easy travelling is a huge plus (not just the first year but the subsequent years).

There is no answer, you just have to weigh everything up.

Kez100 · 28/03/2015 10:00

It's an individual thing. The course could be the over riding factor if it was so specialist, offered guaranteed work, or was much preferred over the others. Most of the time it isn't that clear cut so everything else comes into play. How students feel about finance and travel vary greatly. My sons already travelling 3 hours a day for 6th form and is quite happy doing so - that's not the case for everyone

Original poster
KatyMac · 28/03/2015 12:30

One is a small town/large village - she has a lovely room in a flat there - walks to & back from college & has been there a year - there would be no extra cost; we don't know if she has funding there yet

On is a large town south of London - she'd need accommodation (around £600 pcm which I'd need to find) but it's a top college; we don't know if she has funding there yet

On is in London (south of the river) - she'd need accommodation (around £600-800 pcm which I'd need to find); she has funding there

I like the first & the last I was ambivalent about the middle one - they all offer the same external course

I'm confused - I'm not surprised DD is!

OP posts:
LIZS · 28/03/2015 12:38

Does she know anyone at either of the latter two. Are your accommodation figures based on her living alone , wouldn't a house share or college accommodation be better socially and for support.

Original poster
KatyMac · 28/03/2015 12:57

Well I've been looking on student house share websites - so I was assuming that would be the way it was (like spare room & flat share sites)

She knows a few people slightly at the other 2

I guess I like the security of staying where she is

OP posts:
2rebecca · 28/03/2015 13:04

There's an interesting article in this week's Economist about university league tables and the fact that the ones at the top are good at research which isn't particularly relevant for undergrads and that the reason students at "top" institutions are sought after isn't because they learn more in their course than other students, sometimes the teaching is worse , but because it is so difficult to get in to the "top" unis. They are acting as an expensive sorting office for able candidates.
A while ago on The Student Room I read a report by a newly qualified Cambridge engineering graduate who reckoned the teaching at Cambridge was worse than that at many other engineering departments but students did well in exams because they were self motivated and intelligent and he felt he got a good degree in spite of Cambridge not because of it.
I'm sure that isn't true of all Cambridge students but the whole "prestige" thing with universities does seem to matter more to a lot of people (including employers) than what you actually learn, which is sad.

toothlessoldhag · 28/03/2015 22:05

A university top for research is likely to have better facilities, libraries etc., let alone access to opportunities to hear people lecture who are top in their field. You'll hear that research professors are less likely to be teaching undergrads. That may be true in some cases (though not all), but consider all of the extra seminars, conferences etc (with speakers top in their field from around the world) that a top research university will hold over the course of a year.

Molio · 29/03/2015 10:18

Life continues after university 2rebecca, so obviously 'prestige' will matter, if that has a significant effect on future opportunities and jobs. Also, I'm not sure it's particularly valuable to generalise from what one disaffected student says to other students on a student website. It might well be that this student had a tutor who was not a great teacher, but other students will have had excellent teachers at the same institution. DD2, for example, said that the tutor she had in her first year was the person who made her think properly for the first time - he had a profound effect on her simply by virtue of being an extraordinary teacher. It's just not plausible to say that prestige trumps learning - there's not a widespread connection.

JillyR2015 · 29/03/2015 12:04

This is one of the wisest things I've seen on the topic and I write as a mother whose 3 oldest have graduated and got jobs in the last few years:

"There's an interesting article in this week's Economist about university league tables and the fact that the ones at the top are good at research which isn't particularly relevant for undergrads and that the reason students at "top" institutions are sought after isn't because they learn more in their course than other students, sometimes the teaching is worse , but because it is so difficult to get in to the "top" unis. They are acting as an expensive sorting office for able candidates."

That is what many of us have known for decades. If you want the City jobs where you'll earn £100k + and have a nice life go for the institution and get a 2/1 or higher. Go where it is hardest to get in as that shows you can vanquish the competition and triumph which is what a lot of life and getting good jobs is about.
if you don't want to play that game (and many don't - my oldest son, graduate, is currently a post man and his sisters are higher rate tax payer lawyers in London) that's fine but realise that game is there to be played and make sensible decisions.

People even check university attended when dating and when making friends never mind your job applications in your 30s and 40s in many high paid careers. I look on linked in at where people went to - it's a very useful shorthand - London Met and they are probably thick as a plank. Oxford and they are likely to be very bright.

TaraBoomDeAy · 29/03/2015 12:19

I think it's unkind and pompous to say you must be 'thick' to go to London Met - not everyone has a rich mummy who is happy to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to send their little darlings to top private schools.

MillyMollyMama · 29/03/2015 12:26

Hi KatyMac. I think I read up thread your DD is looking for a performing arts college. My honest advice would be to go to the one that is more likely to get her a job! If this is what she really wants, then the best college is likely to be the one with the best reputation for getting dancers onto the stage. If she would rather teach dance and not perform, then the choice might differ. As this field is so competitive, I think you have to consider employability and the journey to college is not so much of an issue for many as the students don't come home that often!

cauchy · 29/03/2015 12:32

That may be true in some cases (though not all), but consider all of the extra seminars, conferences etc (with speakers top in their field from around the world) that a top research university will hold over the course of a year.

In twenty years I don't think I have ever seen an undergraduate (excluding the fourth year MMath students) attend any research or conference talk.

There's an interesting article in this week's Economist about university league tables and the fact that the ones at the top are good at research which isn't particularly relevant for undergrads.

But there are institutions which are perceived as being top (e.g. Durham, Bristol) and do top newspapers league tables which actually for some subjects aren't particularly good at research. The newspaper league tables reflect the historical bias about which places are better; the research excellence tables (REF), flawed as they are, demonstrate that many of the institutions popular with private schools aren't actually top 10 or even top 20 in research in some subjects. This is irrelevant to many employers, as they are using undergraduate institution as a general sift, they don't care about the course depth or content.

Original poster
KatyMac · 29/03/2015 12:35

Not all together sure that will matter to DD as she is doing Musical Theatre Grin but it is about reputation vs accommodation I think for her

OP posts:
Original poster
KatyMac · 29/03/2015 12:40

Sorry Millymolly - cross posted Grin

They are fairly similar wrt to recent alumni & all three regularly appear in the musicals we go to - which are skewed to the sorts of music & dance DD loves (obviously)

It's so so difficult helping your children make these decisions, and for those who say she is an adult who can make her own decisions a) I am paying the balance not her & b) she will still only be 17 when she starts (yr 13).

If you aren't a dancer/performer helping to decide the best course is massively tricky

I wish children came with a user manual

OP posts:
cdtaylornats · 29/03/2015 13:40

No matter how hard she analyses her choice the one guaranteed thing is there will be something that she will hate. It might be a lecturer, an element of the course, the place she lives in, the travel home but the great thing about a university course is if you like the city/town its in then every other thing is temporary.

As far as I was concerned I had the perfect course , in the best city, good friends and all was well except in 2nd year I had to put up with a flatmate who was a tosser (but glandular fever fixed him) and one lecturer who was a total waste of space, but both these things passed.

The course and the location are important and you may have to compromise on something. Remember also that an all-consuming passion for a particular career can seem like an insane fantasy 3 years later.

Original poster
KatyMac · 29/03/2015 17:07

I know - where she is now the journey is hell! & she is a bit scared of a teacher because of an experience a few years ago - but all in all it's a great place

It's so hard to make a decision

OP posts:
MillyMollyMama · 29/03/2015 19:11

We like musical theatre and there seem to be quite a wide range of training colleges for dance when we look at a theatre programme but several crop up more than others. I would therefore probably go with reputation and possibly what the facilities are like at the college. It is very difficult to know what teachers are like before you start, other than by asking other students who will, hopefully, be honest. Like minded people tend to get along so being away from home wont be too difficult and accommodation costs have to be faced by so many of us!

MillyMollyMama · 29/03/2015 19:16

Italia Conti or Trinity Laban?