Step papers

[AliceMcGee]

ds2 is planning to do maths at uni.he is good at maths in some respects is in top two of his year at grammar school and will be expected to at least have a go at the WICOD
has frightened himself a bit though by looking at step papers.he has worked through a couple of questions at great length and emailed them to one of his brothers friends who is in final year doing maths at Warwick for feedback. but he really is not very confident that he was on the right track.
is it normal to find them very very difficult in mid y12.is it something you can work at and improve? are there resources or tutors? however we are a low income family and we will struggle to afford tutors

DS1 did STEP last year as he had offers from Cambridge and Warwick to do Maths.
There are 3 STEP papers. Warwick require STEP 1 and Cambridge require STEP 2 and 3, usually grade 1 but sometimes S (Distinction).
I couldn't find a tutor but he did do a course at Villiers Park. Lots of advice on TSR and the Cambridge website.
He practised by doing past papers. Certainly in Year 12 he wasn't able to do a full paper. He found it very difficult at first but gradually got better. His college had no experience of STEP so he did it on his own and one difficulty in the early days was in getting papers marked and the fact that he couldn't get any feedback.
He was doing Maths and Further Maths at A level plus Chemistry and Physics and probably spent more time on STEP than all the A level subjects together.
However by mid way through year 13 he was able to do all three papers. In the end he had a bad day on the STEP3 and missed his Cambridge offer. (Very happily doing Maths at Warwick now though).

In hindsight it was a high risk strategy because if he didn't get the STEP grade he faced the prospect of missing both his firm and insurance offers in spite of getting AAAA at A level.

The studentroom forums have a lot of useful info on STEP (such as the STEP prep thread 2015).

Thank you very much for the link to the Student Room! That thread signposts to a veritable mine of information!

secretSquirrel Your poor poor DS after all that work , it was such hard lines to get unlucky on that final STEP paper! I bet you both felt totally gutted. However it is great that he loves Warwick so much - funny how things have a way of working out for the best.

How does it work?When you fill in your UCAS, do you have to decide what STEP papers you are doing then, or do you wait until the unis tell you what they want.

I am not sure that I want to encourage my DS to apply to Cambridge.I think the STEP papers are absolute killers.Especially Step 3 which seems to require you to cover all possible modules!

Ds1's friend applied to Cambridge, and didn't even get an offer despite doing all possible maths modules (ie extra ones at home) + maths, FM, phys and chem and maths EPQ. I am not sure what his predictions were but at least 2 As in the maths (probably more), straight as at GCSE etc

He was rather strange though and maybe didn't do so well at interview.

Alice my DS also had an offer from Cambridge to do maths. Like Secrets Ds, he worked hard on STEP and was doing well at home, but didn't do well enough in the actual exams, so missed his offer, even tho he got 4 As.
He's now at Bath doing maths.
It really is very risky to apply for Cambridge maths - the STEP papers are so hard, and offers always include them as well as AAA. Actually from now it's AAA! But so long your DS has an insurance choice he's happy with, it's worth a go.

Hello Lotsofplans
Alice
When you fill in the UCAS form you say which 5 universities you want to apply to.
They then either send you an offer or a rejection.
Warwick promise a simple offer to everyone of AAA plus STEP1.
Some, like Cambridge do an interview first. DS also had to do a maths test before his interview. If they make you an offer it will tell you which STEP papers and grades you need, usually STEP 2 and STEP 3 grade 1.
The thing with Cambridge is that you don't take the STEP until after A levels so you have to accept the offer first.
I think Imperial is the only other one to use STEP?
If DS was doing it again he would apply to Oxford where they do a Maths entrance exam before the offers are made.

Thanks.So does he have to put on the UCAS for that he will be sitting 3 STEP papers?
Would that mean he has committed himself to doing them even if he doesn't get a Cambridge Offer and firms somewhere that doesn't require them?

No need to mention STEP on UCAS - it'll be part of the offer. Many courses don't ask for STEP. Oxford have their own test, before Christmas, I think.
If you do STEP II and III, that covers STEP I - nobody needs to do all three.
DC started on STEP papers just after Easter holiday of year 13. They found it hard to begin with, just keep at it, and eventually they'll be thinking in the required way. Grade 1 is definitely attainable in the time for a good mathematician with experience of what's asked for.
Obviously, not getting STEP when you're a teenager doesn't stop you from becoming a mathematician, let alone studying Maths. Best to go for what he wants and see where it leads him.
On tutors, perhaps the school can suggest ways to support him? Maths departments like their successes. My view is that not relying on tutors makes for a much easier life at university, mainly because of sound learning habits. I fear I'm in the minority, and always keep an eye out in case of lack of confidence leading to lack of effort. I've also seen so many children who use tutors through secondary school, and, as well as how they manage to fit it in, they always seem less confident about their capacity to solve or embrace new problems.

I am very guilty of trying to protect my DC from disappointment, and I really must stop that! Much better to shoot for the stars and fail, than spend your life wondering.
I think I have been guilty of that myself!

I think Imperial is the only other one to use STEP?

No, an increasing number of other maths courses are using STEP, although this might change in a couple of years when the maths A levels become harder.

For example, see

www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/undergraduate/degrees/mathematics-bsc

www.bath.ac.uk/study/ug/prospectus/subject/mathematical-sciences/entry-requirements/

For example, for Bath STEP is required for students who don't do double maths and is recommended for those who do. The carrot for the latter is lower grade requirements in the A levels. UCL also requires higher A level grades if STEP is not taken. Other RG universities including Bristol, Southampton etc include STEP as options in their offers.

BTW for Imperial you can also take Oxford's aptitude test, the MAT, which is taken in the Autumn of year 13. The MAT however is slightly more poorly correlated with future outcomes than the STEP i.e. STEP more fairly picks out the best mathematicians.

Obviously, not getting STEP when you're a teenager doesn't stop you from becoming a mathematician, let alone studying Maths.

This is true. Nonetheless, you are substantially more likely to become a mathematician if you go to one of the "top" universities which require STEP. Moreover STEP is far closer to university maths than A level maths, so preparing for it bridges the huge gap between A levels and university.

Warwick promise a simple offer to everyone of AAA plus STEP1.

This is not true. They promise such an offer to everyone who has the required predicted grades for A2.

are there resources or tutors? however we are a low income family and we will struggle to afford tutors

There are lots of resources on the STEP website. The main thing is to work through past papers and their solutions. The mark scheme is available and should not require teachers to mark it. I would recommend against using a tutor. Imo the only people really qualified to tutor for STEP are maths academics, in any case, who don't tutor. But more importantly STEP is not an exam for which tutoring helps. It is an aptitude test in which the questions are deliberately designed to be "original".

Just to add to how difficult these degrees are. A friend's DC got into Cambridge to do Maths having passed the STEP plus getting stellar A levels. Has now graduated with a 2.2 as the course was so incredibly hard. Is now struggling to move on as a 2.1 has become the minimum grade acceptable for jobs and further study.

A friend's DC got into Cambridge to do Maths having passed the STEP plus getting stellar A levels. Has now graduated with a 2.2 as the course was so incredibly hard.

In the 20 years I have been watching, very few students graduated with a 2:2 in maths (from Cambridge) if they worked reasonably hard. The students who get 2:2s are almost always those who disengage, aren't enjoying it and don't study enough.

BTW 2:2s in maths are accepted for some graduate entrance schemes, in recognition that maths is not an easy degree and that maths skills are at a shortage.

Warwick promise a simple offer to everyone of AA*A plus STEP1.

This is not true. They promise such an offer to everyone who has the required predicted grades for A2. *

I wonder why that is? It is making the prediction more important than teh actual grade.It is a bit harsh when 50% of grade predictions are wrong, and if they are right, they won't make the grades to qualify anyway.

I think they judge not just using predicted grades from the school but using the whole application the likelihood of the candidate getting the required A2 grades.

It's certainly true that their offers are uniform and hence "transparent". But their offer rate is not 100% i.e. they don't offer make offers to everyone who applies. I think it's something like 80% but I may be misremembering.

BTW most or many applicants will be declaring UMS for modules already taken in maths and further maths. These are a very good predictor of A2 grades, so you don't have to rely on what the school write.

I think it was just semantics which made my comment unclear.
I meant to say that Warwick's offer is transparent. Of course they will only make the offer to applicants who are expected to get A A in maths and FM.
As couchy says they will have sight of the AS grades and the actual UMS. In fact many universities ask for the UMS scores for each module - not sure how that will be affected by the new A levels.