About to become Admissions Tutor...

[PiratePanda]

This time next year I'll be taking over as Admissions Tutor of my department. I've been involved with admissions for many years, some years more closely than others, but this is the first time I'll be in charge in my current department. Not Oxbridge.

We have challenges, like less-than-top-of-the-range facilities (thanks Grade 1 buildings), but generally a good to excellent reputation for teaching and research. AAB offer. Our friendly competitors are running ahead of the pack at the moment though, largely thanks to state of the art new buildings that can accommodate newer (read more technologically driven) approaches to things, which are pretty attractive.

I'm asking for general advice on how, while I can't do anything about our facilities, I personally might improve things.

Parents of prospective undergraduates, colleagues: give me your horror stories and, hopefully, your experiences of good practice - and tell me too if, when your DC finally arrived, the hype lived up to the reality :)

True lalsy - phew!

Sorry Panda, I realise mine was a list of negatives, I think I'm suffering open day fatigue.

Things that impressed both my DDs were:
A website where it was easy to find the dates, could be surprisingly difficult on some of them
A brochure sent out when they registered with a 'personalised' letter (yes, we all know it's automated but they still liked a letter which started 'Dear DD')
Staff available to talk about the course, usually in a central area or outside the lecture theatres. It's less intimidating than asking questions in the lectures
Staff who spoke to the students rather than the parents. I realise this is a tricky balance though (DP is a lecturer)
A sunny day . All unis look better when the sun is shining!

I think, ultimately, facilities can be impressive initially, but friendly, interested lecturers and students who are really chatty made more of a difference.

One last point made by DD1 - fit guys to show them round (shallow )

Went to an open day and there was subject talks so we went to the one that had her prospective degree in the title. We spent half an hour listening to one lecturer drone on about her particular area of interest (not the subject dd was interested in) and then at the end say "and we also do x y and z". Not very informative. They then said if you have any questions go to room 123 where lecturers will be available to answer questions. DD had particular questions about the course that were unsurprisingly not answered by the "talk" so we went to the specified room and spoke to a very nice lecturer who said that he couldn't answer the questions as that wasn't his subject area, but he would find someone who could. There was not a single lecturer in the building who knew about the subject. You may think that this was an obscure subject well it wasn't.

DD wasn't impressed and went elsewhere where she had a much better experience.

Being clear about what is expected of PSs is useful too

absolutely. And be honest about it too. Ideally avoid the website saying one thing (usually involving "well rounded", and "contribution to university life"), and admissions tutors saying virtually the complete opposite.

Admission stats readily available - how many apply per course, offers made, offers accepted, places taken up. Durham seem very open and transparent about this (in contrast to their PS information), but many others have nothing whatsoever.

Anecdotally, a (very brilliant) (French) philosophy applicant I know did a whistle stop tour of universities starting at Exeter and ending at Edinburgh with 7/8 stops en route. This girl is anything but superficial, knocked on the doors of every philosophy dept to talk to someone etc. She was clearly very influenced by shiny modern facilities.

I know some Universities get sniffy about 'helicopter parents' but some take their animosity so far that it ends up being downright unfriendly. The best treat the parents as toddlers i.e. use the distraction technique.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the free pens yet

Well, I was going to mention that we told someone at Offer Holders Day that we were choosing them over Exeter based on them providing a better quality of cake ...

But Y11 do like free pens, though it doesn't wash with older pupils.

No-one has mentioned mature students!
I attended open day events where tutors looked over my shoulder for a possible DC to be hiding. (Yes Sunderland that's you).
Also an idea of what the timetable could be so I can estimate childcare, that's extremely helpful.
A transparent and honest view from the Uni of how their admissions system works, and how things can go wrong (the Uni said I'd applied too late but I had a receipt from UCAS to prove otherwise. Uni then 'lost' my application. UCAS stepped in, Uni told them to do one and that it was their business.
Not changing your mind upon which 'access course routes' are suitable when I'm about to end the access course.
I could go on and on about the effect on morale that Uni had on me.
But instead I'll finish with the happy recollection of a Facebook chat with a random tutor from a random Uni.
She didn't know me, I didn't know her, I was in UCAS never-never land and yet she took all the time in the world to just be helpful. I'm now at her Uni!
I'd say a good FB presence (not necessarily ran by students) is a good idea.
Also, don't assume that all students drink, not all want to attend freshers drinking events and not all students are there to party.
That's the only criticism I had about my 'welcome week', there was nothing for me.
But I'm over it

Dd is doing an art subject. We did 7 open days., then 5 interviews so really clocked up the miles.
The ones she didn't apply for were because one only did a narrow course focusing on one aspect of her subject and the other put on a very shoddy open day. The course lead was ill prepared, referred to her colleague constantly for info during the course talk and was sipping from a costa cup throughout!
Of the ones she had interviews with , one was in a very small college, one she had a great interview with but was in a city centre, this was her second choice.
Two were quite disorganised on the interview day without specific time slots. Plus the interviewers were rude to her and very critical , not exactly encouraging to a prospective student, she turned down their offers.
The one she chose had a very impressive open day with samples of work on show, a very professional talk by the course lead and the interview was very well organised despite it blowing a gale and the computer system crashing as a result. The tutors were very enthusiastic about her work and very encouraging making her feel that they really wanted her to be there.
I couldnt understand why tutors at some of the unis were so snotty given that they wanted students to go there. Dd met students again at different interviews and they definitely talked about their experiences so negative experiences do cause a reputation.

I think have more than two open days if you get swamped. We had a horrible day at Exeter because it took 1.5 hours to get from the allocated park and ride to the university. There were not enough coaches, there were traffic jams and DD missed her first, booked, info session. After touring the accommodation and seeing departmental lecturers - a scrum due to the number of students with both parents asking questions too, we headed off for some lunch. 100m queues for the cafe. We eventually found the theatre cafe with a small queue. We got to the front of the queue to find they only had crisps, cookies and coffee left! Dd then went to next booked in talk, but couldn't get through the door because the lecture room was full of parents. The university staff had to go in and ask them to leave. No, DD didn't apply and we left early. We were tired, fed up and hungry. So Exeter was off the list!
DD2 was interviewed on 12 Feb for her arts course. By 29 April she still had not heard from them. She was informed at the interview, which was 2 hours later than scheduled, that they preferred students to have done an Art Foundation course and not come post A level. It did not say that in the prospectus and it gave the A level grades required. Why do that if you don't actually want A level students to apply? Why interview DD in the first place? They were still saying students could apply in May! They also criticised DD for not coming to their open day! Students cannot go to everything because schools don't allow it! This appeared to be taken as she didn't want their course enough. There must be joined up thinking and a reasonable approach to students who cannot visit. She had watched their open day presentations on utube. Presumably done for students who cannot make it. Brighton. What a load of rubbish!

My DDs were pretty clear about where they wanted to go, but it was not really based on open days. It was important that staff were approachable but neither of my DDs forensically examined the courses! Unlike everyone else, obviously. Course content changes and you don't always get what you want each year anyway. I think some students will want your university and all the knobs and whistles won't make much difference. My DD1 had a pretty grotty room at her college, but she loved it. We didn't look at any accommodation beforehand. We didn't look at the library either although DD1 eventually lived in it! Lots of people will have chosen a Exeter even though their open day was a disaster. Some students really want Exeter!

If possible personalise at least one email to an offer holder. My DD got an email from one guy, introducing himself and talking about her PS, it made her feel that she mattered to them and was not just a number. This is important to the fragile ego of the teenager.

Currently going through the process for the third time. Please be aware that UK/home candidates can live outside of the UK. Please read emails before making assumptions and giving out incorrect information on qualifications required. Please be flexible about prospective students visiting from abroad, school holidays are not always the same and don't coincide with your visit days. The most helpful universities recognise this, one particular very highly ranked one basically told us tough luck, infact they couldn't even allow us on one open day as we hadn't booked sufficiently in advance, difficult to do when flying from abroad. Have someone at your university who has a basic understanding of European qualifications - the IB is not the same as the French Baccalauréat and it is really embarrassing how many university admissions offices don't know this!
Over the years some universities have been really helpful and encouraging to our children and recognise that not all applicants are lucky enough to have a school teacher supporting and advising them and they are the ones that get chosen!

I think one of the main things that universities need to do to attract candidates is to accept that parents are now part of the process.

I get that this is annoying. I get that you will be teaching the students not their mums and dads. I get that in your day you hitchhiked from Glasgow to Brighton without a mobile and only 26pence in your pocket.

But this is how things are today.

Our friendly competitors are running ahead of the pack at the moment though, largely thanks to state of the art new buildings that can accommodate newer approaches to things (read more technologically driven)

A friendly, human approach is so important. I see that MMM's reaction to Exeter was similar to ours. They were so anti-car, anti-parent, we-make-the-rules that it put us off (that's "us" as in all of us, we weren't telling DS what to think. As if!)
Most students won't stay on for further study; they are not academics, they want a degree to get a graduate job. They are not (for Arts & Humanities) that swayed by high-techishness, they want interesting, inspiring, caring lecturers and tutors who treat them as individuals.
Show them that at Admissions time and you are on to a winner.

More of an aside to parents than to the OP: it is very easy to visit universities outside official Open Days.

I was actually going to ask if there was more that could be done to get rid of the parents from some sessions (sorry, Word!). My son did all his open days alone, but was frequently pushed out of the way when there was a chance to talk to lecturers and others by pushy fathers who weren't as polite about waiting their turn to talk to staff about their darling daughters (usually).

I find it really, really useful when people like you, Panda, come onto MN and tell us the truth about the process and dispel myths and rumours. :)

As Bonsoir says, it is easy to visit any university and wonder around, it is far more useful if you can visit departments and talk to the relevent people, this isn't always possible and is best set up in advance. University admissions offices that help and encourage this are the ones that students who live abroad are more likely to choose - certainly the case for my sons.

Lemmings need to stick together, so my input.

Think about the offer for those doing self guided tours. DS was very good at looking at course content, researching academics etc on line, but with the constraint of Saturday school was not keen to visit any but the clear favourites.

Instead we used visits to both sets of grandparents to have a bit of a road trip around different Universities and self guided tours. This research informed DS' insurance choice. I assume there will be plenty of others who either because of distance, money or time cannot attand open days.

1. Test your website. Is the information clear and easy to find. Is the map logical and does it show parking. Most University maps have huge keys with 3 dozen different buildings. Great if you can at least bold the relevent ones for your department of map a tour through the bits that will be of interest to your prospective students. Twice we ended up at parking on the opposite side of the campus. If you are really sophisticated and have some sort of GPS function which provides you with audio tour, check phone signal across the campus and think about batter life. Provide a low tech, printable, alternative. Think about overseas students and video tours.

1. Give a clear departmental phone number, not the admissions one, if your department is prepared to take direct calls. If admin staff are willing to show people round the department itself and answer a few questions, make sure they are prepped with the answers to FAQs. Some were great, but one was pretty dire and, I suspect, inaccurate.

1. If you can sneak into the open day of your key competitor and look at what they are doing. I can lend you a 16 year old, though actually Open Days are such stampedes no one would notice an adult on their own. Universities can appear quite inward looking. If others saw the slick marketing operation at, say, Warwick, they might revise their own approach.

1. Have a clear understanding of your USP and potential market and make sure you get the message across. Bath was not for us. DS is far too urban, plus he was primarily interested in somewhere with a research focus. However we came away impressed. Horrid buildings in a nice part of the country, and helpful departmental staff. If you are looking for a degree focussed on future employability on a small friendly campus with great sports facilities, then this is one for the list. I spend a lot of time in Dorset and can understand why it has such local popularity.

1. Consider links with feeder schools. Seminars or other events that might enhance education and raise aspiration. A friend recently commented that her DD was always on a coach to Oxford or Cambridge, even though no one from the school ever got a place. It might be more useful to visit places (AAB offer) where students might actually go. ubject teachers too might welcome a better understanding of your offer so they can improve the advice to their students.

1. Be clear about when you can make offers. If you will need to hold on to some applications in order to ensure equal consideration, say this. If your de facto entry requirement is likely to be higher than the stated one because you have more qualified applicants than places, say this. Prospective students will want to make the most of their five choices. They want to know what is aspirational and what could be a banker. My guess is that the Exeter tactic of offers above the published standard may reduce the numbers using them for insurance but may backfire in terms of applications from some groups next year. If you make contextualised offers again make this clear, not least because it might attract some potential beneficiaries.

1. Provide good PS guidance on the website. Students who have made the effort to read your website will then be at an advantage. This is what you want. Also try to be clear what, as well as grades, is needed. Do General Studies or Critical thinking count. What subjects are required. What weight does an Extended Project carry. What should a student do if they don't meet standard requirements, say through poor choice of A level subjects.

1. I liked the open day at Warwick. There were lots of parallel things going on so DS did the high priority stuff and I went to talks on Erasmus etc. He was thus able to form his own impressions with me providing input when asked. We were early, but I suspect the traffic jam would only have got worse, so staggered sessions were important.

Hiding, the negatives are as useful as the positives.

If others saw the slick marketing operation at, say, Warwick, they might revise their own approach.

Slick marketing operations cost money which could be used for teaching, facilities etc instead.

There is an increasing trend to develop slick marketing to attract undergraduates but I am not sure it is a good thing.

Unfortunately I'm fairly well known in my field so I'd definitely fail to sneak unnoticed into our competitors' open days. And my 4-year-old won't cut it either, but maybe borrowing is a good idea!

Also an idea of what the timetable could be so I can estimate childcare :( WE don't even know this usually until a month before teaching starts to organise our own childcare. So sorry. Central Timetabling is unmoved.

I totally agree on parents - fortunately we do both welcome them AND split parents from applicants into separate sessions for some of each open day.

And yes, we can rustle up quite a few fit members of both sexes for the shallow...

This was several years ago, but my uni used to separate prospective students and their parents off during the open days - existing students from the course would the kids off for a campus tour and a chat (small groups - max 10 so they could ask questions and actually see what they were being shown, as opposed to being at the back of a huge group) while the dept / admissions staff spoke to parents, then the twogroups would swap, parents would go on the tour and prospective students would speak to staff.

I found this really effective when I visited and later worked as a student tour guide - we got a tenner book token for the uni bookshop and free tea and biscuits at the general mixer (staff, students, prospective students and parents) held in the dept afterwards. Not exactly riches for a day's work but we were happy enough!

Ah crossed post!

uilen, perhaps not well phrased.

I first came across Warwick, as different from other "new" Universities about 25 years ago when working overseas. They were making a determined push for link ups with the local University, at a time when few people there knew much about them. Roll forward two and a half decades, and their well rehearsed and professional Open Day talk was about the pace of their improvement, the quality of their research, the strength of their links with industry, international recognition etc. So perhaps more business plan than marketing.