How on earth to choose a degree course ?

[Claybury]

DS is doing A'levels in maths, biology and chemistry. He should get A' and B's. He wants to study for a degree but has no particular career in mind. I'm sure he's not unusual in this respect at 17. But where do you start in terms of deciding ? He doesn't want to do straight maths or chemistry or biology at degree level. So I'm looking at things like biochemistry/ geology/ sports science. Thing is he doesn't have a clue how to decide. He's quite motivated by the chance to earn good money afterwards.

I have a degree in maths and wished I had looked a bit wider at subjects you don't do at school so I am keen to be open minded and to give him sound advice.
Does anyone have any advice on helping a teen narrow down choices ? Thanks

Sometimes a degree in a pure subject followed by a masters degree to specialise is perfect. Like a degree in pure maths followed by masters in any other science subject, would open a million career doors.

My tuppence,
Sports science: needs to be passionate about sport and a career working with people.

Geology: better to do maths & then a masters if not 100%! It's somewhat limiting, great work on oil rigs with degree in something like sonar/acoustics/engineering.

Biochemistry: opens a lot of doors & can switch to a more specialised area later, like animal conservation / oceanography/ food research etc.

I think a good place to start is to get some prospectuses from local universities, and get him to have a look through them to see if anything appeals to him. Then book to go to their open days to go to the subject talks the interested him the most. That should hopefully give him an idea of what's available, and what he might like, without travelling too far. Then he can see where else does the courses he's interested in, and maybe go to some more open days. My two DSs have done the same subjects, and have considered accountancy, pharmacy, chemistry, medicine, chemical engineering and biology. They are great subjects, with a very wide variety of options available.

Thank you both. And mindgone I will definitely look into open days.
Another question. DS has grown up in London with a wide social life and early independance that often comes with going to a big London school.
I have friends whose DC's have found going to university outside London a bit quiet and parochial - does anyone here have views on this ?
Obviously there are London universities to consider but I think it can be good to be further from home at this age, and London is expensive.

I grew up in London and then went to a campus Uni in a town in the midlands. It bored me to tears. I wish I had gone to a city uni. I ended up travelling to visit friends in Leeds all the time as it was so much more fun. Campus vs city wasn't something I had thought about when applying, but wish I had!

Biochemistry is a perfectly standard degree subject, isn't it? TBH as ragged said, often a standard degree subject can be a better choice than one which is more specialised (forensic science first degrees for instance are often not a great idea).

For some reason the employability of geologists came up in conversation with DH recently, he'd read that it wasn't very good.

Very many of my DDs London based friends have gone to Leeds, Newcastle, Nottingham, Bristol and Manchester, etc because they do want a life outside a campus. I think living at home dilutes the student experience and London is still available in the holidays. Therefore I don't see the point in just looking at local universities. Look at the best he can get into! Local ones might be useless, so don't waste your time! My DD didn't look at a single campus university because life there seems to revolve around the student union bar!

There are some campus universities in big cities, for instance Birmingham

Have a look at push.co.uk you can filter your choices by all sorts of things, and start narrowing down some Universities or courses in different ways - including geographical or by cost of accommodation if you want, before you start narrowing down the actual choice of course.

Oh - I also agree with Errol. There are quite a lot of large Cities outside of London you know, many of them with several different Universities, colleges, training schools. Yes to Birmingham, but also Liverpool, Manchester, Cardiff, Leeds, Sheffield..... the list goes on.

At 17 I was just the same! Except my A level subjects were math, chemistry and physics

So I did a joint honours degree in Physics (my favourite A level subject, but didn't think I was ever enough to do a whole degree in it) and Geology (sounded interesting, uses lots of other science, love the outdoors, fieldwork instead of exams).

My degree focused my interests and I then did an MSc in Engineering Geology and have worked in this field ever since (nearly 25 years!). Never been near an oil rig! Engineering Geology is about understanding the ground and Earth processss in relation to redevelopment, building, flooding, slope stabilisation, landslides etc. If you've ever driven down the M6 Toll without an embankment sliding on you, that's because of me.

I am a Chartered Geologist and I know an awful lot of geologists. Geology is a great degree - draws on all "pure" sciences, informs environmental science, and I really enjoyed the combination of lectures, labs and field trips.BUT - pretty much every geologist I know has done postgraduate study to specialise - teaching, engineering, petroleum (and there are many specialisms within petroleum geology), marine, palaeontology etc.

Geology is certainly a credible degree choice (and has served me, DH, DB x 2 and SiL x 2 well), but beware a straightforward BSc (Hons) will likely need topping up.

You could consider courses at Heriot-Watt like Combined Sciences and then go on from there to do something in energy or robotics. As well as the Edinburgh campus you might be able to study for a semester at either the Dubai campus or the Malaysian campus.

Combined Sciences would let him exercise his interests without tying him down immediately. The Edinburgh campus has access to Edinburgh, Glasgow is 30 minutes away by train and he can marvel at the most expensive tram project in the Western world. Easyjet fly from Edinburgh to Luton and RyanAir fly Edinburgh to Stansted (which for RyanAir is really close to their specified destination).

What about Economics, accountancy, engineering, statistics, marine biology, astronomy, dentistry, medicine, radiology, physiotherapy, pathology, anatomy, zoology, neuroscience, psychology, geography.

Thanks for the replies. In particular bikerunski it is interesting to hear people's career paths. When I graduated most people trained to be accountants ( 10% of graduates I think ). - even me- which never really interested me. It was well paid though.
I'd be interested in hearing from people who have degrees in neuroscience, biochemistry , chemical engineering, chemistry . I don't think he would go for anything with an emphasis on field work.

He should look on the student room to talk to people who are actively on those courses or wrestling with same choices.

How about Biosciences or Food Technology?

My nephew is doing Phd in neuroscience after finishing his degree in Physics and masters in neuroscience. His degree was in Natural sciences and specializing in Physic.

I've got a degree in chemistry - well, two as I did a PhD as well. About as far from fieldwork as you can imagine or even labwork(though obviously there was loads of that in the BSc) - I write scientific software.

I would suggest that if he doesn't know what he really wants to do then he shouldn't be trying to narrow down choices but rather go for something that keeps his options open as far as possible - and that's more likely to be the case with the more vanilla subjects than anything specialised at the first degree level.

ErrolTheDragon sorry to be dim but what is a vanilla subject?

He is doing 3 sciences and maths and will likely drop Physics next year. He is able enough in them all, just no clue what he wants to do. He has some prospectuses but I'm not clear how joint courses work.

I think by a vanilla subject it just means a general non specialist degree. So a BSc in Biology rather than a BSc in Immunology.

Joint courses (I did one) normally work by the student selecting a number of modules from each of 2 subjects. The total number required is often more modules than a single subject degree. I did joint honours Physics and Geology and did about 2/3 of 2 degrees iyswim ie 4/3 of a degree ie 1/3 more than single subject students.

Stupid question, and so sorry but it's about (whispers) medicine.
On that push website there were so many medicine options; how do I know which one is the course to become a qualified medical doctor, and what are all the others?

I did chemistry, plus biochemistry PhD. If I had my choice again, I would have done a pharmacy (not pharmacology) or IBMS accredited biomedical sciences degree. Mainly because both of these allow all the options of a research career, whilst also providing professional status in their own right.

Whatever he does, do not do forensic sciences. A forensic science degree is not worth the paper it is written on.

Of all the pure sciences though, chemistry is the most flexible IMO. Chemistry can be very biology orientated by selecting modules such as biochemistry etc, but can veer into the realms of physics with physical chemistry too.

Look for an MBBS rather than BSc for proper medicine. The websites should be clear.

Bikerunski has excellent advice. Geology PLUS a specialism like petroleum as a masters is a good career path. It can also lead you to very well paid, and very interesting jobs all around the world.

I would avoid any degree like forensics, food technology, psychology, sports science, etc. these, rightly or wrongly, are seen as soft options.

Biochemistry is fun (it's what my first degree was in) but in all honesty, not directed enough without further specialism. I did a masters and a phd and even then, I saw a lot of unemployed (and unemployable) peers. The market is saturated for biochemists. The job options are therefore lower paid too, even if they are interesting. Pure chemistry would have been better for me.

If I were him, I'd go for something with a high numeracy focus which has real application in a high paying career set. Bikerunski's advice is excellent. He could also look at careers that involve engineering (good engineers are always in demand) chemical engineering or industrial chemistry, oil and gas etc.

Also, don't discount maths as a pure first degree subject or as a combined. It's incredibly valuable. I know precisely zero unemployed mathematicians.

If he'll listen to an old fart like me, tell him to put his sensible head on and think past all the 'do what you love' crap they dish out these days. Do what you have an aptitude for and will give you a skill set that will open the door to a good career. The harder, numerical degrees will always give you an edge. degrees with industrial placements are also well worth looking at.

Good luck to him! Sounds like a sensible kid!

But Geology is a terrible degree subject if you don't like fieldwork.

'He could also look at careers that involve engineering (good engineers are always in demand) chemical engineering or industrial chemistry, oil and gas etc. '

Most engineering degrees need physics. Those might not but they strike me (I'm married to an industrial chemist) as quite tough career choices.