York or Exeter?

[msminerva]

DD has identical offers and needs to choose between them for firm. York is current favourite. Still needs to visit one of the insurance unis (again two identical offers one grade lower) so won't be making final decision just yet but the department at York made a better showing on the open day. I feel the York campus is bit cut off whereas Exeter is more mixed into the town but not my decision of course! Any one else making this choice?

I think both Unis would be great choices. Exeters student population is 70% state educated so don't worry about ridiculous generalisations.

Who actually uses the word "Sloanes" these days? A "cool party crowd" ? What on earth is this? Everyone thinks they are cool, don't they? I think you find drunk, loud students from all backgrounds! In every university.

Pretty sure "slones" is still a term in use to describe a particularly annoying sub set of students... It was used when I was student ( Bristol) and my much younger ( still students or just graduated from Exeter ) colleagues use it now 20+ years later.

Quite right Troll I do know plenty who have avoided that element at Exeter as I already mentioned on the thread but it still often comes up as an annoyance.

I might add Milly that I wonder if you appreciate that most students in "dead end" jobs are not there out of some martyred virtue, born of inverted snobbery, they are actually earning the money to pay the rent and to enable them to have a social life, voluntary work is just not a possibility because there is no Bank of Mum and Dad to subsidise it. The loans / grants do not cover living expenses and if you are not lucky enough to have the benefit of bursaries etc., and/ or parents with deep enough pockets then you have to live frugally and work. And actually as a graduate employer (marketing) I was actually more impressed with a student who could demonstrate they had picked up marketing, customer service and business skills working in a "dead end" job at the coal face of customer service / promotion in a restaurant or giving away free chocolate bars in a station as by someone with a string of internships in advertising and the media smoothed by parental connections who couldn't demonstrate they had learnt very much at all apart from how to network within a certain culture. I was just looking for the evidence that they had the qualities to do the job however they demonstrated it.

Milly I am simply relaying the way in which my DDs and their peers regard and label certain tribes, like this www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1294868

and that came up with the first google of the term :-)

Then there is this en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloane_Ranger York does not make the list of universities allegedly popular with this alleged group, not that any student would base their choice of uni or essay on Wikipedia

If it helps my state educated daughter is loving it at Bristol University. No problems in joining societies.

I can confirm that having a job during A Levels and at university has become a necessity. One dd's friends at sixth form has two jobs - a Saturday job (all day) and an evening job (that finishes at midnight every day of the week). I have no idea how she copes with A Level work load.

I agree Poisonwoodlife re. students in "dead end jobs" (how snobbish). As an academic I am always more impressed by students who manage to juggle their studies with paid work. It shows commitment to being at university, and I usually find that these are the students who are not taking their education for granted, but are engaged, present and hardworking. I always make a point of mentioning this in references. If anything it's the students who don't need to work who are the ones missing lectures, not doing the reading and demanding essay extensions because they have a week's internship or skiing holiday over the vacation and "need" the extra time.

I actually went to York myself, and did not find the distance from town an issue - it's walkable in less than half an hour, and I lived out in the second and third years anyway. I remember there were a couple of rahs but so few of them that they stuck out like a sore thumb. I actually work in one of the universities named on the Sloane ranger Wikipedia page now, and it is very different to York. Although one parent complained furiously to the accommodation service that the university "takes too many students from deprived backgrounds" (sooo not true, the University is desperate to widen access as it has a high number of privately-educated students) because her precious snowflake DD had to live in halls with some students from state schools!

Just graduated colleague was today telling me of the ( perceived to be posh)hall at Exeter where you pay extra for a room with a view after complaints from "rah" types that it was not fair that their room did not have a nice view. Colleague thought she got a great price on her hall in first year, the view from all rooms was dire ( railway line or main road) if you were standing up, but siting at her desk she could look up to the hills...

The boss, who left exeter uni about 30 years ago claimed that in his day.... the private school students were put in the old mansion house type halls that had shared rooms as they would be used to it, while the state school bunch were put in the modern soulless blocks of flats.

My DS was in the hall UniS mentions ... Holland ... and it is super-posh, super-rah and the views are indeed lovely as is the smoked salmon brunch on a Sunday. Think its around £220 a week now ... You take your pick ... Another DS who was at York, found it super-cheery, gorgeous city, and was as happy there as DS1 was at Exeter.

One of the strategies my DDs used to make sure they did not find themselves living with the certain sort of arrogant, entitled, thoughtless, misogynist and exclusive, in seeking out their own kind, private school pupil they had been avoiding at school was to apply for self catered accommodation without en suite facilities (although we had already made it clear we would not pay for ensuite if it could be helped). It worked very well, by some miracle both have found themselves with a bunch of flatmates they get on really well with, it happened to me with flatmates who are still close friends decades later and I didn't think it could happen twice more. Meanwhile the ones they were avoiding were desperate to get into Holland at Exeter, Charles Morris at Leeds, Hugh Stewart at Nottingham........

ganeshamouse I feel for the academic staff, it is driving my DD mad that there are a couple of "those" arrogant girls in the seminar for one of her subjects who pass notes to each other fixing social arrangements or sit there looking vacant swishing their hair from side to side and then just when the discussion is getting interesting and the argument following a good track they interrupt with either a comment that misses the point or actually say "I missed that, could you go over it again" ..... The subject is rated top in the country for research, these are very interesting and inspiring academics, it is beyond arrogant not to listen.

the private school students were put in the old mansion house type halls that had shared rooms as they would be used to it, while the state school bunch were put in the modern soulless blocks of flats.
Finally after 40 years I now have an explanation of why all the public school males ended up in Mardon Hall in Exeter and the grammar school types like me were in rather better single rooms in the newer blocks. Mardon is now one of the cheaper halls of residence there compared with its neighbour Holland Hall with its double beds and ensuites.
Incidentally, the reason why these expensive halls are put up is not primarily for the benefit of the students but to make them more easy to let in the summer for conferences and groups such as Saga tours!

The man in charge of Mardon 40 years ago (Dr Frank Oliver) took great pleasure in making the public school boys share rooms with state school boys. It was apparently quite a happy "social experiment".

I shall have to go through my battered copy of the University List 1975-76 and check the poshness (by address) of the students then in Mardon!

Don't get me wrong - there were plenty of "posh" boys in Mardon (probably a higher proportion than anywhere else). There were also boys from state schools. Dr Oliver liked to mix them up.

It is also extremely rude to generalise that all privately edcuated students, who have parents that do not want or require their children to work, produce offspring who do not work at university. My DD volunteered at university. Is that decent enough? We took the view that she should volunteer at something that might actually help get a job in her chosen career. Working in a supermarket, would not have had the desired outcome. You and your family obviously hate a lot of people, Poison. I don't dislike anyone and nor do my children. They would be equally annoyed if people did not concentrate in seminars or tutorials. However, there are plenty of people who do this from all walks of life.

It is not snobbish to talk of a "dead end job". The jobs taken by university students are rarely what the student aspires to as a career. They would rarely have a career structure, eg working in a bar! I am so glad my DD received an outstanding reference form her personal tutor despite not working in a bar! It might just have been because she was diligent, hard working, attended everything, volunteered for roles of responsibility, was very good at her subject and was a pleasure to know and to teach!

Nobody is generalising Milly or prejudging anyone. But sadly it is a fact that a certain subculture has grown up in universities and it is rooted in private schools, or I should say certain families and peer groups, since IME the schools certainly do not encourage it. Most students who go to university from private or state schools are hard working and treat others with respect and the press coverage that occasionally emerges is not representative but it is equally not untrue of a certain element in universities. I don't hate anyone but equally I have no time for certain values, misogyny is one, that subculture tolerate as norms. The fact that they are particularly prevalent in certain universities and halls is something students do want to be warned about. in fact you more or less did that upthread Exeter is a university of choice for privately educated students and is viewed as an extension of boarding school! York is not quite as popular on this front. Just choose where you think you fit in. and All the universities you mention are popular with boarding school pupils. I guess they go where their friends go - like everyone else. Now what exactly did you mean by that? My daughters chose their universities on the quality and interest of the courses, where their friends went didn't come into it, in fact better to go where nobody they knew was going so they could focus on meeting new people from different backgrounds and cultures.

I am sorry but some of the things you write do make people Being implicitly derogatory about "working in a bar" for instance. I worked in a bar , managed it in fact, and it taught me a lot. I don't have any problem with my DDs working in a bar as a student job, to me it is all part of growing up as well as giving them vital skills and experience, "dead end" doesn't come into it.

I am sure your daughters were a pleasure to know and teach just like mine but why get defensive of a sub culture that you appear oblivious of and whose values, going on what you have written, you almost certainly would not find acceptable?

I don't think they meant all private school students Milly. Most people from any background are great and it is usually a tiny minority that spoil things. That is when you end up with stereotypes. If you believe the West Country stereotype then I should drink zider, chew on a piece of straw and go round saying 'all right me luvver'.

Voluntary work is great, it is just that some students need to earn extra money in a temporary job.

Grovel & lily - LOL at Dr Olivers social experiment. May I tell the boss? I think they would be intrigued. This thread has resulted in much good natured conversation at work about student digs. The 3 of us are all of different generations , one went to vocational college, one dropped out of uni after 3 years and one graduated. We all work in our desired industry , we all worked while we were students, today we were all wiring plugs, sockets and other electrical items needed to forefill an order.

UniS, feel free to tell your boss!

Oddly enough I've just been to an offer holders day at Exeter today with DS.
It didn't seem particularly rah but on the campus tour someones DM did ask the guide which accommodation would suit her privately educated DD.
The reply was Holland

DS & I really loved the uni BTW.

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