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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Warnings at uni

106 replies

Wearywinnie · 31/01/2015 11:00

My son has had 2 warnings over the past two years for poor attendance at uni. He has told me that if he gets a third they will kick him out. I am furious with him although he has been working much harder. Is it possible for him to get through another year without a single absence? Is it that simple? I don't know how the system works :(

OP posts:
antimatter · 31/01/2015 11:03

Is it possible for him to get through another year without a single absence?
Not sure if this is correct answer but it's up to him to be organised. And attend every single lecture etc.
Did he explain what lead to those warnings?
What level of absence we are talking about? Did he own up wnat really went on?

I am sure he understands that some subjects are based on continuity of presence to carry on lab sessions etc.

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 31/01/2015 12:53

The system should be explained thoroughly in some form of handbook for his course/faculty on their website. You should be able to find it if you have a lot of patience! I find it extremely unlikely that a single absence would result in the third formal (written?) warning, unless they've decided that that's what he now has to do - turn up to absolutely everything to get out of some kind of probation. But that does sound unlikely.

You don't get a formal written warning about absence unless it's very serious in the first place. It really shouldn't have got as far as the second formal warning. Does he actually understand that he's not simply going to be able to talk his way back in if he gets kicked out like this?

TheAwfulDaughter · 31/01/2015 12:58

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Original poster
Wearywinnie · 31/01/2015 13:01

He has a meeting with his tutor having received an email about it so I'm not sure if that constitutes a written warning??
I have told him that he needs to go to the uni welfare people as well because I think he is a bit depressed which has caused him to lose all his motivation. He is talking about dropping out and coming back to it in a years time but I have said that he will still need to find that motivation and get himself to lectures and seminars and work hard. He has very average marks so far this year and feels he has already messed things up.

OP posts:
Original poster
Wearywinnie · 31/01/2015 13:02

Thank you theawfuldaughter you have made me smile!

OP posts:
chemenger · 31/01/2015 13:09

He needs to be careful about assuming that it is his decision to drop out and come back in a year, this is not always allowed and here, at least, would not be allowed as a tactic to avoid failure. If he has health problems, and depression is unfortunately pretty common in the student body, he needs to get a) help and b) documentation. If he wants to get out of trouble he needs to be pro-active, once the machine starts rolling it needs effort to stop it and even more to reverse it and get back in good standing.

UptheChimney · 31/01/2015 14:57

Three absences in one module, or one year, or one course could be enough for my university to start disciplinary proceedings if they judged it appropriate. Students are expected to undertake their studies with "reasonable diligence" -- which my place translates as "attending 70% of scheduled classes."

I don't think that's too much to ask. Particularly as students are [still] funded by taxpayers, who are backing/paying for their loans.

OTOH, I suppose we could just take the attitude that "It's your money that's paying for your university course. It's up to you what you do with that."

But that wouldn't be an ethical position, and students like your DS would sink, thus wasting their own/taxpayers' money.

eatyourveg · 31/01/2015 16:20

ds seems to think at his uni the lectures are optional, its the seminars where attendance counts Hmm

CalamitouslyWrong · 31/01/2015 16:33

Policies for attendance can vary by degree programme. If he's on a programme that leads to a professional qualification, then the professional body may well have stipulated minimum attendance requirements. These are often very strict (but still not as strict as it would be if the students were actually employed, where not turning up because it's raining/you're a bit hungover/you can't be arsed/etc would not go down well at all). Other programmes will follow their school/faculty regulations.

TheAwfulDaughter · 31/01/2015 18:34

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SmillasSenseOfSnow · 31/01/2015 20:35

eatyourveg, most of the lectures on my first degree were obligatory, and they would often pass an attendance sheet round to catch people out.

On the degree I have just started, virtually nothing is obligatory. Not even seminars! I think there's a grand total of about 20 hours (max) this semester that are obligatory.

CalamitouslyWrong · 31/01/2015 20:57

We take electronic registers in all our classes, whether they are lectures, seminars or practical work. I keep a paper register for my seminar groups too.

The university send out letters to students who miss 3 consecutive sessions, but there aren't any actual penalties on the programme. I sometimes work on another programme that has a 80% minimum attendance requirement that is strictly enforced.

MillyMollyMama · 01/02/2015 18:04

On graduation day my DD saw a few students she had virtually never seen in any lecture. One got a first. She assumed he was so brilliant he taught himself. However, not to be recommended for most students. I think feeling you are failing makes it hard going at university for some. The buoyant, confident ones forge ahead while the struggling student is left further and further behind. It is time to have an honest chat about what is happening. Are his lectures at 9 am so he is unable to get up? Is he out of his depth? Does he no longer enjoy his subject? Does he have friends or is he lonely? Does he have too many unmotivated friends? Try and get to the bottom of the problem.

UptheChimney · 01/02/2015 21:51

This 9am thing I've heard this excuse from a few students over the years. It really doesn't wash most of the world starts work between 8am and 9am (I generally start at 6am). They just need to turn up! I have been known to advise student that I don't care of they come to lectures in their pyjamas -- but they need to be present.

Littleham · 02/02/2015 10:00

I'm not a scientist, so have no idea if the attached is correct, but if it is wouldn't it make sense to delay the start of the day a bit? Or would it cause too may problems?

www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2013/04/teenage_sleep_patterns_why_school_should_start_later.html

uilen · 02/02/2015 10:13

Universities' timetables are typically completely full between 9am and 6pm. Some specialist graduate classes are even scheduled outside these hours because teaching rooms aren't available in the core hours.

The only way to delay the start of the day would be for it to be extended longer into the evening but this would hardly be fair to those who are teaching, who would then have to pay for childcare until the evening. It would not be fair to cleaning staff, who would then have their hours shifted. It wouldn't be fair to catering staff or admin staff. Etc etc. As upthechimney writes, the whole of society starts work by 9am and excepting students from this wouldn't be reasonable.

Littleham · 02/02/2015 10:24

Yes - I can see that it would be hard to manage particularly for some courses. Out of curiosity, have any universities ever tried it as an experiment? Or is it just schools?

Do you structure lectures / tutorials to have the most taxing ones later in in the day? Or is that too difficult with timetabling?

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 02/02/2015 10:30

We have 9am starts and teach until 8 ... to be honest, poor attenders are poor attenders whatever the time of day, and good students make it in whatever the time of day. They're grown-ups, and should be able to get to a lecture for 9, and most do.

We have no input into what time we teach, or what goes when, except that lectures for a module are before seminars in the week. Timetable have to prioritise making sure it's an appropriately-sized room for the group, and that's usually what dictates what time we teach at. It sucks, really.

Littleham · 02/02/2015 10:38

Thanks for answering my second question. That's interesting that you don't have input into the timetabling. That must be a pain sometimes.

Luckily my children do get up for 9am school and university, so I'm asking this out of curiosity (rather than personal reasons), as I know that schools are experimenting with these ideas. Have any universities tried it as an experiment?

uilen · 02/02/2015 10:42

Putting the most taxing classes later in the day is not considered a good strategy either, as students are mentally tired after attending earlier lectures. Moreover, defining what is more challenging for students would be difficult, as this might well vary between students.

As already said, consistently poor attendance is not correlated with the time of day of classes anyhow. BTW I also notice poorer attendance for classes after 4pm or 5pm as students like to stop working for the day by then.

Again, universities work a full 9-10 hour day so pushing everything later would not be an option (even for an experiment) as it is for schools running a 6-7 hour day. Frankly if my university started pushing me to lecture after 6pm just so students could have a lie in I would push for a strike - this experiment would cost me a fortune in extra childcare and I would not see my children before they went to bed.

UptheChimney · 02/02/2015 10:48

Do you structure lectures / tutorials to have the most taxing ones later in in the day?

Well I've always been a morning person & like to start teaching at 9am. But I have often been required to teach past 6pm.

The main problem is that the admin /IT support is just not there. And my campus has no way of getting a healthy meal after about 2pm for staff. I take my own food & heat up in our little cubby hole of a kitchen.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 02/02/2015 10:51

It really is a pain! No-one likes teaching until late, and to be fair most of us would rather not have a 9am seminar: the only concession Timetable make is that if you teach until 8, you don't have a 9am start the next day.

I don't know if anywhere's tried experimenting - I think we've all said it might be better if first years, at least, didn't have 9am starts just out of pragmatism. But it's astonishing how many think 'well, I just struggle with a 9am start' is a reasonable excuse for absence!

I think the problem with arranging by how taxing a session is, would be that everyone would consider their session to be 'taxing' - no-one would want to say 'ah well, mine's a bit of a doss really, so it may as well go early!' We all like to think we're teaching rocket science 101! Grin

Littleham · 02/02/2015 11:01

I see what you all mean! Sounds like everyone might want the same teaching slots if there was freedom to choose.

I can't find any mention of a university having tried this either & of course schools have a greater flexibility as they finish at 3.30pm anyway (so easier to push back the day).

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 02/02/2015 11:25

I think we'd all go for a nice 1-3 or 2-4, if we had the choice! After lunch, too early to be hungry for tea, no real excuse to be just out of bed.....

Rarely happens.....

UptheChimney · 02/02/2015 11:42

Universities are not schools. A lot more goes on than teaching reluctant undergraduates.

Someone wisely said to me, "Never care more about their education than they do." Sometimes, I need to take that advice.