Went to parents evening last night. DS1 should easily get in Oxford apparently?

[FreakinScaryCaaw]

He's only 3 months into year 12 so am surprised they'd know so soon?

His English teacher called him a genius. Luckily ds1 is modest and I managed to get him in the car ok as his head hadn't grown He isn't telling anyone. I have

I was secretly hoping he'd go to Durham near home so this came as a bit of a mixed blessing if I'm honest.

Have your dc/s been to Oxford? Or are they going?

His psychology teacher was heaping praise too. She said if there's a lull she knows she can go to ds1 for answers.

God it's hard though isn't it? Realising they'll be going soon I know it's for the best and has to happen but it's still tough.

Agreed Marni, but it's not a logical mis-step to suggest that most candidates will do better in smaller tutor groups than they would have done otherwise.

"Naturally brighter" counts for nothing once you're actually studying at Oxford. It's a slog for everyone.

Sorry, missed part of your post, in which you made the same point.

IME independent school students can pass for "naturally brighter" because they often have much more confidence and polish, but are they innately cleverer?

Hence that pesky baseline that everyone has to meet.

I write "they" but I mean "we".

I went to a very academic, very pro-Oxbridge public school. We weren't just prepped, we were positively drilled. We were given packing lists for the interviews, FFS.

I feel very sad for kids who don't have this level of investment but do have far more natural ability, which explains my stance now. It's not fair, but the playing field can be levelled.

I completely agree with your stance re kids with natural ability who don't have the advantages of a private education and I'm glad that Oxbridge are at least trying to level the playing field with contextual information etc.

I just get a bit tired of the assumption that with privately educated DC it's all confidence and polish, not innate intelligence. Undoubtedly that's true for some, but not all. And they didn't ask to be privately educated!

Oxford will take a low AS mark into account in Chemistry (if that is what he gets) when making offers. They will have loads with As in all 4 or 5 AS subjects and History is one of the most competitive courses to get onto. I assume he has a large bunch of A*s at GCSE including academic subjects.

I just get a bit tired of the assumption that with privately educated DC it's all confidence and polish, not innate intelligence. Undoubtedly that's true for some, but not all

Yes. I know a few Winchester Collegers and Etonian KSs and they would agree with you . I'm not sure whether they're cleverer than lots of other, less expensively schooled people I know.

Though TBH "innate intelligence" is such a daft concept anyway. I read Classics and Oriental Studies (no strategising there...) but my chances of being accepted if I'd applied for Physics would have been zero. IQ or whatever is irrelevant, though performance against peer group is very revealing, hence the point I was making earlier.

Have a strange feeling my dd goods to the same sixth form pm me!

Goods? Goes. Sorry!

Actually... The sixth form dd goes to doesn't offer psychology. Excitement over.

One of the best pieces of advice we were given re choice of university subjects was to make sure that the student chose something they really enjoyed studying, not a subject that they thought they ought to do. This obviously doesn't count if you are aiming for a particular career eg law/medicine. The thinking behind the advice was that at some point they might feel like chucking it in because it's hard/boring etc but if they were studying a subject they loved then they were more likely to stick at it.

He then went on to show a list of subjects studied/careers followed and very few of the degrees related directly to the career, which I thought was interesting!

Law can be studied post grad, frosty, so it is perfectly possible to do what you really enjoy first and then do the GDL. About 50% of lawyers now do this as they can obtain additional skills this way. Also Teach First requires a 2:1 from a decent university in a subject taught in school. You don't have to be super clever but you have to work very, very hard.

Congratulations to your son for the feedback received at parents' evening and for it being suggested that he should consider applying to Oxford. That is already something! Now is definitely the right time to start thinking about it.

As a PP says, applying for Oxford is more than just using up one of the choices on the UCAS form. There are a number of things he/you can think about doing sooner rather than later. With any luck, this time next year he could be in Oxford for a couple of days for an interview.

He could consider attending: a Sixth Form day just for students from state schools, and a subject open day for all students. That link is for a date that has already passed, but there is probably another one next April. You can always call or email the department administrator to ask.

If he does apply for history, he would have to take the HAT test next November. Would the history teacher be willing to work with him on some of the material, or at least mark his attempts at the questions?

Lots to think about, OP! But a really fun path to walk down. My DD is in Oxford this week for an interview and is having a great time.

It's always nice to have a good parents' eveining.

And it's fantastic to hear teachers positively encouraging students to apply to Oxbridge. But telling them they are shoo-ins is just silly.

I am currently involved in the interviewing process and all the candidates are strong! They have fabulous GCSEs, great AS scores etc etc etc...

But we simply do not have places for them all. We do not have places for half of them!!!!

Also bear in mind that there is always a second shot at Oxford and Cambridge for those who wanted to go as UGs and didn't get a place. I know several children-of-friends who are very happy as PGs at Oxford or Cambridge.

Sorry, this is going back a bit, but someone mentioned being wary of a teacher who claims a student is brighter than they are.

Why?

I am currently teaching a student who is patently brighter than me. She's great. Part of my job is acknowledging how good she is. Some students will be brighter than their teachers.

But even if it's not certain the student is brighter, I think good teachers can make you feel that way. I had a teacher in the sixth form who made all of us feel as if we were brilliant and sure to go on to great things. It gave us confidence, and she didn't have too much ego so she made it work. It takes a lot of skill to manage that, I think.

History if he is brilliant is fine. If he is not (if he did not get mostly A in 10 or 11 GCSEs) and will not get something like AA and AA* at A level then he probably increases his chances of getting to Oxbridge if he does a less competitive subject. Depends on career. My daughter is not sure she'd have got into Bristol for law but did for her subject and the law firms who recruit like the fact Bristol is on her CV (that counts more than the degree subject). So if you have an idea of career work back from that.

He may be uninterested in making much money now but when it comes to keeping a family, getting the best girls, buying a property it will certainly matter.

Agree nobody gets into Oxford easily but for the sort of things my academic kids have applied to 6 per place is not that huge ( starting with 10+ per place at grammar to what seemed like huge numbers for competitive uni courses at Russell group ) .

Go for it if it seems right for him but be prepared to fail and bounce back - easier said than done as uni applications seem like the most important thing in the world ever, at the time.

If history is his passion go for it.

Post grad teaching qualifications are good - dh did the graduate teaching programme. Very much suited to self directed learners. dH is one of the few teachers who isn't looking to get out, but he had a career in industry and retained mid 30s. I think he copes better because he's worked in all sorts of areas. So don't rush into teaching if other things beckon for a while.

getting the best girls
ffs Greengrow

I did find that a bit peculiar too!

We're not living in the 1940s any more, green - you know, occasionally women get to have careers too, right?

Its a pity schools say this sort of thing. Yes encourage pupils to have high aspirations, but don't go over the top. Its a bit like predicting all A*s at GCSE. Anything less then becomes failure.

Good candidates, obviously, do get in. As do one or two rather dull ones. Similarly there are some stunning candidates who don't get in. A rejection was made worse for the daughter of someone I know by teachers then telling her the equivalent of "You woz robbed".

The real problem is that offers/rejections come out in January, when pupils are preparing for mocks. Some popular second choice Universities, eg Durham, can be very slow in making offers, presumably because they can only start to fine tune their numbers once Oxbridge results are known. Factor in expectations from a school and wider family and it can be tough, especially for a child who has always excelled and has little experience of failure.

So apply. It is one space on the UCAS form. Enjoy any specialist tests and the interview. It is all good experience. Look at the course, living arrangements, how hot the girls are etc at both Oxbridge and other preferred Universities. Two very strong but rejected candidates we knew happily accepted that courses elsewhere suited them better, Oxbridge just offered them a chance to leave London. A third (A* everything always, and a brilliant score on the specialist test) realised he had focussed so much on Oxford that he had not given much thought to his second choice, and was not absolutely sure he wanted to go there. Armed with strong A level results he is reapplying, and has an interview. In the meantime he is having a great gap year with a mix of work and travel. He has also revisited his second and third choices, the first on a gloriously sunny day, and is enthusiastic about going to either.

What are you on about, Needsmoresleep with the comment about how hot the girls are?

That type of comment doesn't belong on this type of thread, or anywhere, in fact. You know that girls are also going to be applying as candidates themselves and don't want the overall experience to be seen as one in which they are expected to be "hot"?

Apart from that, I agree with just about everything you on substance. DD has just spent three days in Oxford for interviews and had a really enjoyable both during the interviews, in her conversations with the other candidates. She said that all the candidates were great - very able and most helpful. She learned a lot.

I think the experience did her good in terms of inspiring her to want to go either there (if she gets an offer) or to another academic university (if she doesn't receive an offer). In either case, she is now very much open to a path, where she will get to read lots of interesting texts and to have lots of interesting discussions about them, with both tutors and fellow students.

Learning from the other students - an essential part of the university experience - is another thing that is new and valuable for the students that have been top of their school for some time.

It would be great if he got a lace at Oxford, if he wanted to go, however I think it was irresponsible of the teacher to say he could easily get in as there are many many factors militating against it.

Contextual data matters, but only marginally. It won't bump you up significantly, it's more a case of when trying to decide between two "equivalent" students (there's no such thing obviously, but often very different students come across as equally good) then the student with a few contextual flags may well be preferred.

Your son should go on open days, talk to tutors and students, and if he thinks he'd enjoy it - apply!

I agree that it would be very irresponsible of the teacher to say that a DC would "easily get it". Perhaps what the teacher meant is that the DS is "easily Oxbridge calibre", and hence should apply? That would make much more sense.

If he applies, he might not get a place.

If he doesn't apply, he certainly won't get a place.

That is the way to think of it.