Whether to fund daughter's LPC?

[merlehaggard]

Hi, a question to those who know about legal careers. My daughter is in her final year of Russell Group Law LLB. She ideally would like a training contract and would like to work in medical negligence. She has no interest in the very large commercial firms but would realistically be happy working in lots of areas - either within law or in HR, train as an accountant etc. Her first choice would be as a Solicitor though but is very concerned by how hard it is to get a training contract. She is happy to keep trying over a period of years to improve her CV and keep applying though, by working as a legal secretary, paralegal etc.

However, she is also interested in the CPS. To work there, you need to have already done your LPC. They will not fund it, but a lot of Solicitors' that she will be applying to will.

To pay for her LPC, we will have to increase our mortgage. She has always said that we should because she may get a training contract from a firm who will, and they would not be more interested in her just because she had already done the LPC. After speaking to someone whose daughter graduated 5 years ago (during recession when training contracts were even worse to get), she said that they paid for hers and she wouldn't have got anywhere without it.

I'm sorry that this is so long winded but would it be worth (in your opinion) funding the LPC so that she could start studying it next year?

wet CV bigpaws?

5 to 6 applications? 5 to 6?

A million years ago some of my friends were making 90 applications for training in the other branch of the legal profession.

I still do not understand where law students get this idea that they will be able to pick and choose the areas they work in - even while they're training.

Atticus. Also, paranoid you're my boss...

This is what she has said to me today. That on their own forms, firms always ask for individual marks and mostly they are their own forms. This is why she has specified it in her cv.

She did also get some 2.2's in her 2nd year though. They do 4 core subjects a year. Her 2nd year were 58 and 59 along with 2 very high 2.1.'s (something like 68 & 69) so came out with a mid 2.1 over all. Her first year was all 2.2s (high to mid) with one lowish 2.1 - if I remember rightly! So in all has only 3 2.1s and 5 2.2s, although averaged a 2.2 in her first year and a 2.1 in her second.

I was a bit confused by the bath thing!

She didn't think that she could pick and choose her area of law in a superior way. It's more that the questions that the applications are worded (what area of law interests you the most/why are you applying to us etc) that made her think that she needed to show that she was genuinely interested in them and if she wasn't then it would come across in interview.

Do you go for sunbeds at lunchtime when I need you in court Bigpaws

My daughter wouldn't go on sun beds! She wouldn't def be available to go to court! ??

She needs to show she's interested in a training contract without appearing fixed on one thing. It will take some careful wording and she will need to adapt her applications depending on where she's applying to.

Applying to a commercial firm and saying you think family law or crime would be interested is clearly going to put you on the bottom of the pile. As is expressing an interest in shipping law to a high street practice. Each one will need to be tailored.

Thank you.

If in doubt and she is asked the question she can say she feels she's suited to contentious (or non contentious) law. That works for all firms.

Haha atticus, no, no I do not!

Contentious is def the general area she currently feels she would like, but could you say contentious when applying to a commercial firm or are they contradictory?

Get a TC, any TC. Twenty odd years ago my friend went from a newly qualified commercial property solicitor at a small south London high street firm to Clifford Chance. Why, not because he was a superstar but the market had changed and they were desperate for com prop lawyers.

Think of the law as a hour glass, loads at the bottom, bottle neck of a TC and then when you get qualified lots of opportunities. We are a small firm but very high quality work, we have two trainees they are getting hands on training with good work and good principals.

I think she has lots on her CV, so keep on doing the same, network like crazy, get a 2.1. It is do-able but she has to really want it.

Of course. Commercial doesn't mean we don't do contentious law. It just means we act for companies rather than tending to act for individuals.

Thank you Moid1. That is good to hear. She just needs to start applying in earnest and then keep applying and working as a paralegal. Thank attisclaw , and all the others for their help and advice. We now have a well informed game plan!

Does anyone know anything about qualifying as a Solicitor through ILEX?

DS is going down this route. After he's got 3 years qualifying experience he can do the LPC and will qualify as a solicitor without a TC. I can't remember how much it is because he's saved since he started work to pay for it.

While he did do a bit of work experience during his degree he didn't do enough or investigate his options and I wasn't willing to help him with funding - my worry was he'd finish the course and still not be able to get a TC and he'd have to convert his graduate loan to a normal one. He's been working as a glorified admin for nearly 18 months, thankfully kept on after a 4wk voluntary placement after I'd kicked him out one morning in his suit with a pile of CVs and told him not to come home until he'd got something maybe I should've been as forceful when he was at uni

The criminal solicitors he did his work exp with advised him to go down this route as they've seen their work dry up with more and more firms closing and those that remain would rather take on someone experienced at a lower rate than take a chance on someone inexperienced. He's now networking like mad to get into a better firm but with 5 unis in a 20 mile radius all offering law there's a lot of graduates chasing the same jobs.

I don't think its particularly wise to self fund the LPC until she has got a training contract lined up.

Ideally she should get a training contract with a firm which funds the LPC but even if she gets one with a firm which does not provide funding and she has to pay, at least she would have the certainty of a job at the end of it. Otherwise it's an expensive gamble.

I would definitely advise her to get some proper legal work experience, perhaps by paralegalling. Most firms do ask for grade breakdowns and the individual 2:2s will be a concern but hopefully not fatal if she manages a 2:1 overall and can offer some decent work experience.

I'm at a large firm in the City and have relatively recent experience of making training contract applications, supervising vac schemers, talking to students at careers fairs etc so any questions feel free to ask, though I hope she is doing most of the research herself!

Thanks notsoskinny, so did he actually do any of the ILEX exams or just LPC? If so, what modules?

Thanks Tsukuru. I think you are right. It is too expensive a gamble. My daughter says that she didn't have any intention of letting us anyway, as she knew that it would be a silly think to do.

He only started this September, 1 evening a week. I think its a fasttrack course, possibly 12 or 18 months and he needs to complete 3 years qualifying experience before he can start the LPC. He contacted the local law society and arranged everything himself so I'm a bit vague on the finer details.

He's enjoying it far more than his degree and with hindsight wishes he'd applied for an apprenticeship at one of the larger firms after his A levels but his college pushed everyone down the uni route.

If he's doing ILEX, then I guess he only needs to do practice papers (having done the law at uni) and it must seem very easy by comparison. If she can get work as a paralegal, then she can start asking questions about this possible route.

He says its hard, in a different way, but likes that its more realistic. He found all the referencing tedious and without any relevance to what went on in court, unfortunately he spent a summer shadowing a barrister on a major case who repeatedly told him the LLB didn't prepare anyone for the profession.

He can retain facts, and won several mooting competitions, but struggled with some parts of his degree I went through the agony of equity whereas he's able to apply his knowledge on this course although the teacher's now asking the other students for the answer before asking him what obscure case he can refer to always was a smartarse

Speaking as an accountant, if her first choice is law then this is what she should target. They are very different careers (married to a solicitor).

An accountancy training contract will involve three years, not two, and ACA exams (or ACCA) which are tough and done at the same time as working. If the only reason for accountancy is that we're apparently paid more than lawyers then looking at RollonFriday and the large US and City firms and knowing what DH is paid that's cobblers.

No, it wasn't anything to do with money. When you're at uni and have never worked full time, any sum seems like a large sum after all! To be honest, she def does want to be a Solicitor. It is what she has wanted to do, since she was about 13 and studied law (rather than say maths and convert) because she knew she would like it, and has not been proved to be wrong.

However, I think there is a bit of panic amongst those looking for TC at the moment and I think it is a bit of a relief to realise that there are other good careers out there for someone with a law degree and that if they don't get a TC then it isn't the end of the world. The same with HR. It isn't her first choice, but a few years down, if she didn't have a TC, it could be a route to consider.

When she started the degree, and it was so hard to get a TC, the problem seemed such a long way off and we hoped the situation would substantially improve by the time she left-but it hasn't. But she hard working and has worked most of her summers unpaid, just to get some experience and knows she will just have to keep going and getting better experience to put on her CV until she gets one.