Engineering Degree

[MEgirl]

DCs in Year 11 and we've started to look at options. Went to look at Warwick today and came away underwhelmed by the engineering school though they quite liked the actual campus. Both are interested in the possibility of Imperial or UCL. I, on the other hand, would quite like them to go somewhere out of London to have the experience of living away from home. I also think that it would be a benefit if they went to different Uni's. One of them is very in to martial arts and the other wants to take it up again so that may be a factor in their decisions.

As I went to Uni overseas I have no experience of UK Uni's though DH went to Brunel. What other places are worth taking a look at? There is so much information and I'm slowly wading through it together with the DCs but suggestions and experience are very helpful.

I have 2 DS studying engineering -
DS1 in his final year of aerospace and space engineering at Southampton (Final project involves working on a space craft to travel on the moon, part of a European Space Agency programme)
Southampton, I think, is quite traditional. Students are expected to be self starters, eg in 1st year one maths module was entirely self taught with weekly tests, and post grads available to help if you failed any of the tests.
DS has made some great friends, inc 1 who is well on his way to his first million by developing a rail app which is bringing in a very healthy income for him.

DS2 is in 2nd year at Warwick.
We've been really impressed by both, but Warwick has been particularly good with the 'caring' side. Eg, offer came along with a personalised letter picking up on his interests from his PS and recommending clubs and societies that might be of interest. Also, DS has weekly tutorials with 7 others across the engineering spectrum, and they keep the same tutor for all 4 years. So any problems are picked up quickly. Also, they they offer a non means tested academic scholarship of £1000 for the brightest first years based on exam results (typically those with a min of A*AA)
Warwick also had close links with jaguar in Birmingham.

Both boys are enjoying the hands on experience of bring involved in the student formula race car teams.

Other universities they looked at/ had offers from where Bristol, Bath and Surrey. Surprisingly (to me) Bristol was the least impressive ds1 stayed there for a week as part of a course and thought the equipment was poor. Ds2 went to an open day and found the current (postgrad) students uninspiring.
Bath- both loved bit it's too close to home
Surrey-campus uni, sandwich course, well regarded and both boys chose it as their insurance
Ds2 did head start at Imperial. Thought it was excellent but was concerned re accom in 2nd year onwards, and really wanted a campus uni with lots of sports clubs etc.
At the end if the day, most unis offer engineering. The better ones ask for a 3xA minimum and students will struggle with less. But keep looking and choose the one that feels right for you. Both my DS knew which uni they wanted (ds2 wanted Warwick so much, he applied for both meng and beng)
But do be aware it's very full on and both DS have found that are pretty much 9am -6pm 4 days pw, plus Weds mornings. So part time work in term time hasn't really been an option. Though they have worked during the summer break

Sorry, more of an essay than a post!

Imperial is amazing for engineering and extra curricular activities but the courses are very maths intensive and extremely challenging - when I was there it was not uncommon for people to really struggle at Imperial, transfer to an engineering course at another uni and sail through. The workshops were great though. Career options other than engineering with an Imperial degree are also excellent - many grads go on to the City, consultancy etc.

wjwa- thank you for your informative post. Really useful

Are you saying that at Southampton and Warwick students generally arrive with 3 A's or that was their offer?

Bluebellz - I think there are 150+ students each year so I wouldn't presume to know what A-levels they have gone in with. :)
Offers are AAA or A*AA (Southampton), DS2 talks of a friend with AAB who is struggling - but maybe he would struggle anyway.

DS1 was the last year of low fees and competition was fierce so anyone getting less than the offer was refused a place, and the following year I think Southampton was in the national press for running the course with empty spaces rather than take students with less than the entry grades.

Even in 2 years though the climate has changed with the cap on places being lifted. Based on what my DSs have found, I would strongly recommend looking at unis that are close to your predicted grades, a bad result on the day may mean a lower mark than you would have expected, and you could still get your place and do well. But if you will struggle to get the A level grades, then bear in mind that with mech or aerospace engineering, the masses of maths, physics and (possibly) chemistry, that you have done at A level is only the start. You need to love the subjects because you will be taking them on to much higher levels every day for the next 4 years.

On the plus side, both my boys love their courses!!

I am guessing that Universities asking for lower grades will cover the material at a slower pace, and perhaps in less detail given that term lengths seem fairly similar. But at the end, provided the course is professionally accredited, then you are at the right place to continue along the chartered engineer path.

Sorry, that might found a bit pompous and I honestly don't mean it to.
I just mean that with so many people going in to the course each year, I'm sure some do go in with lower than advertised grades, but maybe they also struggle. I'm only a mum, I don't work in HE, do I'm just passing on my DS experience x

As others have said, it depends on the discipline, but I can speak very highly of both Durham and Manchester. Brighton, not so much

OP, it might also be worth having a look at the jobs that your dc can get as engineers. I had a quick look at Prospects, filtered by graduate schemes available for engineers, it should give your dc some idea of the types of roles available, and the starting salaries and locations (hope that link works).

I think only about 50% of my classmates ended up in engineering roles though, the rest tended to go into the City as bankers, consultants and accountants, mainly.

Thanks wjwa that kind of information is really useful. Really helpful, thanks.

DH is Fellow of various engineering institutions and says that, as you might expect, there is a pecking order of universities and courses. No-one on this thread has mentioned that there are two distinct undergraduate degree courses for Engineers.

Applicants must check with the Council of Engineering Institutions as to whether the course is accredited. However, some are accredited and lead to Incorporated Engineer status (in old terms - technician) and these are often the BEng courses over 3 years. Could be 4 in Scotland. The higher level courses, where the top quality ones ask for AAA as an absolute minimum, and probably a * or two as well, are MEng courses which are typically 4 year courses. These lead to CEng (Chartered) status a lot more readily than the BEng courses. Typically a MEng graduate would expect to earn more money initially and a Chertered Engineer will earn more than an Incorporated Engineer. It is possible to do an MEng after a BEng to get to the same position. Employers, however, can fast track their MEng employees and it can be a long slog to be a Chartered Engineer these days with a BEng.

Therefore, the courses that are easier to get on to, take loads from clearing and do not require top A grades, are BEng, which generally lead to a protracted training period to acquire Chartered status. This certainly applies to Civils, Structures, Mechanicals and the more prestigious engineering disciplines and any student considering "Engineering" should be aware of the differences. Cannot really comment on the best university as DH is Civils/Structures/Highways and it appears OP' DS is not into these disciplines.

Thanks for taking the time to type all that out MMM - and to your dh for the information.

Without MN, there is so little career guidance for our dc.

Can I just ask a very quick question. What A levels would be recommended to choose for this type of degree ? We are finding it very difficult to get some straight answers from our school.

Hi AnyFawker. DD2 may possibly look at engineering. She is year 12 and has chosen to do maths and the 3 sciences. She ideally should be doing further maths too. Her school are not offering this due to lack of numbers so she is self studying for the AS. Biology is not essential for engineering but she may still go down the medicine route so is keeping all options open until the end of year 12!

Typically Maths, & further maths if available.
Then depending on the degree type, eg aerospace, chemical, etcetera
Choose physics, chemistry, resistant materials, as appropriate
Ds1 took maths, fm, physics, chem (& geog to AS) for aerospace
Ds2 took maths, fm, physics, res mat ( and chem to AS) for mech eng.
If you look at the university engineering pages they do give good advice on which A levels are required for their engineering degrees.

Thanks

We like the sound of the Loughborough Engineering dept.

Any experience out there about this?

Gosh, what a great source of info you lot all are. I see that we have a lot to discuss and a lot of research to do before making a decision. I'm glad I asked this now and not mid way through next year. Gives us some time to think about it all leisurely.

MMM - that's really useful helpful, I wouldn't have thought to check with the various institutions. DH is an engineer by training but has worked for the same company for 25 years and has not been a member of any of the institutions since I've know him. I don't think that he's kept up with the various unis and what they have to offer.

Good to know about the lower offers and clearing. I know that my kids have their sights set high. Now we just have to help them to get there.

The top qualification for any Engineer is Chartered status. Technically if you are not Chartered or Incorporated you are a Technician, not an Engineer. It is the difference between being a Doctor and a Nurse. Both have qualifications but one is higher than the other! My DH became a Chartered Engineer (CEng MICE) at 24. Not sure if that is even possible now!!! He added MIStructE a few years later and FIHE after that. He is now a Fellow of the first two as well but he is the Senior Partner in his Consulting Engineering practice so these qualification are very important to the business.

As for A levels, Maths, Further Maths and Physics is best. Further Maths helps get a place on the best courses and then there should be no need for Maths catch up classes at the University. There should ideally be a 4th A level and this could be Chemistry, Geography, Resistant Materials or even a language if they want to study abroad. Eg. French or German. This is done in Year 3 of the MEng course and enhances employment prospects but the teaching abroad is in French, German etc. so the Universities put on classes to help with proficiency.

Schools that do not offer FM, or make any attempt to get pupils to join classes at another school, are doing their pupils a huge disservice. In my view it is a disgrace and puts any Engineering applicant at a disadvantage, although the student can catch up, but it is a lot of work. Why do we still have schools that do not support STEM subjects to the highest level and ability of the pupils? How will any of these pupils be considered for a maths degree at a top university?

I thought a lot of Medic courses were not bothered about Biology A level, preferring Maths, Physics and Chemistry. Could be wrong though.

Can anybody be arsed to explain, in a couple of sentences, what the different types of "engineer" entail ? I would be very grateful.

Chemical Engineers design and operate processes to make chemicals, food, detergents, drinks (including Gin) and anything that needs to be changed from raw materials into a product. They are the best engineers

Mechanical engineers design and work with things that move - engines and other machines.

Civil engineers design things that don't move - bridges, roads, buildings, dams.

Electrical and electronic engineers deal with generating and transmission of electricity and design things that use electricity to make them work from large scale power devices to micro circuits.

there is much more to all of these and there are big overlaps between them, but in a nutshell that's what we all do.

Yay! Thank you

That is SOOOOO helpful.
Can I ask if anyone can explain what

aeronautical

and

aerospace

engineers do then please, and what is the difference ?

How is the last year on Meng funded? I'm considering applying for chemical engineering for next year, but only have 3 years of funding left due to dropping out of uni at 18, doubt I would be able to do the Meng

Students are funded for the final MEng year in the same way as the other years; it is treated as a normal undergraduate year. Students who start on the BEng usually have no trouble extending their funding for an extra year if they move to the MEng (so they get 4 years funded instead of 3 in most of the UK and 5 instead of 4 in Scotland).

Aeronautical and aerospace are quite often interchangeable. These engineers work mainly with aircraft.

Space engineers design craft to operate in space, literally rocket science