Children not allowed at University - why?

[oxen1]

I work in a London University and was told that I'm not allowed to have my 6 year old visit me, not could I bring my second baby 3 years ago, due to them not being covered by insurance. For them to come in I would need a special letter from the Head and my line manager said that in general "it's frowned upon".

Does anybody have an idea of what this means and why it's so hard to show my child where I work? Or is it a uk-wide thing that's the norm in any educational institution?

"I sent huge chunks of my childhood running around my dad's university chemistry laboratory" - I would have marched you out of my laboratory if you had been running around in it.
Laboratories are no places for children.

I'm assuming you don't literally mean running around a chemistry lab, otherwise your dad was unbelievably unprofessional and irresponsible.

Clearly being flippant! You NEVER run in a lab (said in my best Phoebe voice).

I did get to explore them when they were empty, I've never been in a lab whilst work was happening- not ever. Bet it's really interesting.

Prevailing memory is of a huge bottle of chemicals that had a pretend paper hat and a picture of a cocktail stuck on the side. It had gone missing and when it returned they'd joked it had been on holiday. Lots of lovely memories.

A lab is not a playground for children, at my old place, even undergrads had to be closely supervised in labs at all times. Whether literally running or not, it was absolutely unprofessional. The university actually stopped me from being in my own research lab when I was pregnant due to potential exposure to certain chemicals.

"I did get to explore them when they were empty" utterly irresponsible. A laboratory is no place for a child to "explore".

Are you really incapable of grasping a lab is an industrial work area unsuitable for kids
Of course it not risk assessed or insured for your kids.chemicals,hard surfaces,taps,sharps bins
Given that adult need induction,coshh,prior to entering a lab its unsuitable for child

Why is it so hard?safety, its really not hard to understand

Do what everyone else does.tell your kids about work.it's not a petting zoo for their entertainment

Part of my job is to manage university insurance, and policies are very precise. Insurance companies cover what they want to cover and nothing more. Anything out of the ordinary has to be specified and agreed in advance. That means organised events, summer schools etc have risk assessments and get signed off generally without problem. Those agreements include supervision arrangements.

For universities to give an OK where they have specifically been told by their insurance companies that they are not covered is for them to take on the risk themselves, so if anything goes wrong they are on their own. That means if the visiting child gets hurt or their visit results in damage any costs fall on the university (chance low, potential impact could be very high). They then have to weigh up whether that risk is worth it to them. This is not a call that should be made by the security guards, who may well be contractors. Not sure it needs head of department OK, but essentially someone has to weigh up the benefit to the university of oxen's children visiting her vs the risk of something gong wrong. For an ordinary office type environment, no problem, but for a higher risk setting it might well be very different.

Children unsupervised in a lab just very stupid really. Students get hurt and occasionally killed in labs, they can contain very dangerous chemicals.

Oh and this is nothing to do with Columbine, which was in any case at a school, obviously plenty of children there! The main changes that Columbine brought were ways to lock down areas within schools and new approaches for SWAT teams. How universities respond to active shooters is a whole different kettle of fish to this issue which is more about routine security and safety management.

Some of you are spectacularly missing point,lab is an industrial area,with hazards
Nothing at all to do with colombine.everything todo with estate management and safety

Apart from the lab issue, though, would people really take the piss and bring children in as a regular thing if it wasn't specifically banned? I've never worked where there was an express ban; never seen children doing anything other than briefly visit (CEO's kids included).

My DC occasionally come in to work with me at the weekend; they like to see the office and if I have to go in, at least I'm still spending time with them (and there's rarely anyone there). I know colleagues (and my boss!) do the same. DS's favourite occupation is shredding, which the admin staff appreciate someone else doing - and there is always a shredding backlog) - DD likes to sit by the window and draw pictures. So even if there is someone there, they aren't disturbing them - it's nice to be able to do that (and the security guards have never objected to opening the side gate for them)

Generally speaking I'd only expect to see a ban type approach where there was a perception that people had taken the piss, where children had caused a nuisance, where there was a significant danger, or where insurance had only been granted so long as children were banned. Or where a new manager had arrived and was being a bit OTT of course. Bans are a slightly extreme option and often ignored. Better to have a risk based approach which says 'only in these circumstances' or 'only when known risks are controlled'. Having said that the OP isn't facing a ban, just a slightly irritating hoop to jump through.

I sticking my head above the parapet here and can see know good reason why you should take your child to work, just because he really wants to see where you work. Children in the work place are a disruption to other staff and often their are insurance issues.

My lads wanted to see where I worked when they were little, when I drove past the building I worked in and showed them.

Blimey I wouldn't have been allowed in the oil refinery where my dad worked when I was little !!

You've been told no and now you are making out your kid is a victim, with the 'he's a bit sad when I say he can't.

Get a grip and stop coming across as entitled.

flipchart, you're clearly in the mood for a fight, but I will just ask you to stick your head under the parapet again. I don't need a grip, I'm not entitled, and if you think a university is just like an oil refinery then there's not much point in further comments.

I wasn't in a mood for a fight. I just don't see why there is a need for children to be in a work place just because the child wants to and is all sad because it can't.

The nearest my children get to my place of work is the car park.

I said you were acting entitled because your boss had said no and you still want your own way.

Do you do everything your child wants or are you able to say ' sorry, that's not possible'

Do you actually read a thread before you make flippant comments?

What I asked is, does this happen to other universities or is mine special? From the answers I got, I gathered that some do and some don't, and it's likely due to insurance terms. Some posters had never heard of such a thing, some said they have experienced the same. It was helpful to hear other people's experiences, especially those that have worked or studied in a university, which is why I chose this board rather than one where people come in to pick fights such as aibu.

Do you see that this isn't just about my child but about a blank refusal to accept non-adults in university, which could include teenagers, breastfed babies and, yes, also children who want to see what the university where their mum works is like? By all means, your children can stay in the carpark if that makes you happy.

Do you generally pick fights with people or is it just online? Because to call somebody "entitled" and "wanting my way" is not the way adults communicate in real life.

OP I work in a university and I see colleagues' young children very very occasionally -- generally for maybe5 minutes when they pop in to the office between picking up child and taking work home to finish in the evening.

A university is a workplace like any other. Would you expect to see a colleague's child in a TESCO, or a law firm, or the local DSS office?

And FWIW, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I think your response to flipchart is uncalled for. I tend to agree that you seem to think that a university is a different workplace from any other. It's not (except we tend to work 24/7).

A bit of an international perspective:
In the past 2 years I've studied (postgrad) and worked at 2 different NZ universities.

Uni 1: parents rooms on campus (for feeding, playing, resting. Access to computers etc). Parents room in library for studying. Lecturer suggested I bring DD1 age 6 to class when school and uni holidays didn't match up I declined as she'd be trying to get involved in the politics discussions because she hates being left out

Uni 2 (work): children occasionally popping in and out - to see workplace, while parent needs to come in outside usual hours. Saw a lovely toddler sitting under her Mum's desk yesterday giggling away while her mum corrected exams. Occasionally older children spotted doing reading/colouring in offices.

In neither situation did I see anyone take advantage, and certainly while I was studying the facilities for parents in Uni 1 made my life significantly easier on occasion, even though for my scheduled time at uni DD1 and DD2 were at school/childcare.

UpTheChimney yes I would expect that people are allowed to have their children visit, for five minutes even. I have seen children in shops, in surgeries, in museums. Not every room in a university is a lab, and in any place with hazardous materials you tend to need a special pass to get in as an adult as well.

The reason I got annoyed with flipchart is because I have a genuine dislike for the term "entitled" and I'm not a child to be told I want it my way :)

Those five minutes that you see children pop in and out is more or less what I would hope to have with my son, a chance to say hi, see where I work and then we'd go. What's so unheard of about that?

I'm also in the why is a university any different from any other workplace camp I'm afraid. People are there to work.

And its not correct that breastfed babies are permitted in the workplace legally. As a breastfeeding mother you have no legal right whatsoever to bring your baby into work. You have the right to a place to rest, that's it. Cooperative employers will also provide a place for you to express (in your own time).

I didn't visit my mum's workplace until I was 17. She was a school teacher and the only reason I visited at 17 is because I did some work experience at her school.

I think there is also an issue (rightly or wrongly) as a woman of needing to be seen to separate work from home. Women who are very visibly mothers within the workplace are taken less seriously as those who are seen first and foremost for the work they do.

Well, in continuing support of the OP, I have very fond memories of visiting both of my parents throughout childhood, in locations as varied as (the offices of) a factory, a museum, university and library. Being taught to play or study quietly, but also to be aware of a range of jobs ou there was the best education I can imagine in the circumstances and indeed the only way they could manage the lack of affordable childcare after school and in the holidays.

Lomaamina maybe it's just that...the fact that you were allowed to enter those places as a child makes you see you own children as just as likely to follow that example. Thanks for the support as well!

Women who are very visibly mothers within the workplace are taken less seriously as those who are seen first and foremost for the work they do.

But as I posted upthread, this isn't just an issue that impacts on "mothers in the workplace", this is something that impacts on parents who are trying to study...

But, as a student, you should approach your studies with the same attitude and professionalism that you would expect from a member of staff at the same institution.