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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Failed degree

34 replies

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 03/06/2014 17:39

Without getting into any of the whys & wherefores, DS2 failed a module earlier this year, hasn't handed in his dissertation (he did masses of research but just couldn't write it) & is about to not hand in 2 essays.

He can either just walk away with nothing, or retake his 3rd year in 2015/16, but in that case can only achieve a pass.

Is a simple pass (if he even gets it..) worth having? (He did fine in 1st & 2nd years but has been depressed this year & wondering why he even did this course)

He has no idea what to do with his life as it is & I'm wondering if he would be better finding a 2-year vocational course. Or abandoning study altogether. Or something.

All advice gratefully received.

OP posts:
SwedishEdith · 03/06/2014 17:45

Can he talk to a tutor or student services? They should be able to advise on the best strategy at this stage. Your poor son, early 20s is so young to know what you want to do. If he does fail he can transfer any credit at a later stage and complete his degree when he's ready - maybe combining work with the OU?

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 03/06/2014 17:51

Thanks, Edith. I think a lot of them just get swept along in the 'must go to university' thing Sad. It was his decision not to take a gap year (partly because his was the last year on lower tuition fees)

He spoke to graduate services (?) today because his personal tutor had a queue. I've suggested trying again to see her tomorrow, & also to try to access whatever careers-type advice there may be to see what ideas they might have.

I have seen OU suggested as a possible way to use the credits he has but I don't know if he'd be sufficiently motivated for that!

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 03/06/2014 17:53

If he is depressed, he needs to get a medical report to let him defer.

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 03/06/2014 17:58

Oh we did go through the depression thing earlier in the year, Bonsoir. He had a sick note from our GP in November & has been on fluoxetine, but he'd already failed the first semester module before we spoke to anybody, & it wasn't possible for him to drop out & defer at that point either because you can't in 3rd year (we didn't realise in time that he was actually depressed)

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SwedishEdith · 03/06/2014 18:00

He doesn't need to decide now really about OU - education is lifelong, thankfully,so might be best to take some time out to think. He could have a gap year now. But,yes,very easy to get swept along on the must go to university at 18. He'll be working for 50 years so no rush yet

Mulberrystreet · 03/06/2014 18:08

I did well in my first 2 years of uni, 2:1's for both years. However they didn't count towards my final mark and 3rd year I just did not understand the project at all, asked for support and was told it was 'an independent study year', long story short I failed the year, and therefore my degree. I had the option to resubmit my final project and get a pass, or just leave it and walk away. I walked away and I don't regret it for a second, putting myself through that stress and pressure again of trying to cobble together work I just didn't understand would have tipped me over the edge. Yes it cost me a lot of money which I will be paying back for a while, however I still gained skills and experience I wouldn't have got otherwise so I tried to take the positives. I got a job in a related field and have been doing well for myself, my studies at uni definitely helped me get to where I am, but not actually having the degree hasn't really affected me at all.

accessorizequeen · 03/06/2014 18:17

I work at a University and students have to submit mitigating circumstances forms in these kind of situations. He or you need to get directly in contact with either his personal supervisor or the year tutor to work out what can be done to help him. It entirely depends on the Uni/course how much each year is worth in percentages and that should be easily available. Without passing the requisite number of modules/credits, he cannot pass the degree. Again the details for his course ought to be easily available to him in the undergraduate handbook for instance. Hth

titchy · 03/06/2014 19:10

Can he leave with a Diploma of HE?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 03/06/2014 19:17

Oh, poor him, this sounds awful.

I'm surprised the rules are so harsh - that he can't defer during the third year, and even if he has mitigating circumstances, if he returns to retake he's limited to a pass. Is it absolutely definite this is the case? Sorry if I'm just showing my ignorance. I just can't see how it would be fair. I mean, surely if he'd landed himself in hospital for six months or something, he wouldn't be told he couldn't defer and he'd not be limited to a pass?

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 03/06/2014 19:19

Thanks, mulberry - it sounds as if your degree was a more useful subject than his (purely academic) one but I'm glad you came through with something positive from the experience, I hope he will too

aq, we did have a couple of consultations with the university earlier this year.

Titchy, I don't know. It's a Russell Group university. They did say today he might be able to repeat his 3rd year somewhere else but that that would not be RG (though I doubt that matters at this stage!)

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Finola1step · 03/06/2014 19:23

My friend's dd scraped a 3rd last year after falling apart in her finals. She was allowed to repeat this year and is doing much better, likely to get a strong 2:1. Explore the repeating option further.

AllMimsyWereTheBorogoves · 03/06/2014 19:34

TheOne, I've got nothing useful to add but I just wanted to say I'm really sorry to hear this. It must be very stressful for all of you.

Thanks
callamia · 03/06/2014 19:34

Something similar happened to my husband not too long ago. He's ended up doing a masters in order to improve on his very poor degree outcome. This seems to work for him.

I don't think your son's university are doing well by him though. He should have his mitigating circumstances considers for the whole period affected - whether he flagged it at the time or not - the nature of depression means that you're unlikely to be on top of your game to get the appropriate support at the time. He may be allowed to do some resits without penalty, or to submit his dissertation late due to ill health, and so not be penalised for late submission.

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 03/06/2014 19:35

Thanks, Finola

your friend's DD did actually pass though - DS2 has utterly failed so repeating as such isn't an option, unfortunately.

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TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 03/06/2014 19:38

oh sorry, mimsy & callamia, you weren't there just now - thank you Smile

callamia, I think they do as well as they can when asked for help - trouble is he's not very good at asking or at following through. & of course he's there & we aren't & there is a limit to what I can do (due to data protection blah blah)

Certainly his dept seemed less helpful than student support when we saw them in Feb.

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AllMimsyWereTheBorogoves · 03/06/2014 19:56

TheOne, at the university where I used to be an administrator, the rule was that if you presented yourself for an exam or submitted a piece of work to be marked, you were implicitly stating that you were fit and well and therefore no mitigating circumstances were going to be taken into account.

However, if you later produced evidence that actually at the time you were not fit, it would be considered if you could show that you were not at that time able to think clearly and see that you were unfit. This was designed to make it possible for people with depression to get retrospective mitigating circumstances. One benefit of that was that very occasionally a student could get a poor mark or a fail set aside and they could have another attempt which would be treated as the first attempt. Another benefit was that a retrospective extension could be given.

Have you or your son gone through the academic regulations at his university to see if there is anything similar in place there? It's all at the discretion of the exam board, usually, but there should be an appeals procedure he could use. He might be out of time on that but again medical evidence might be accepted as a good reason for why he didn't appeal within however many days they normally stipulate.

Good luck.

Clint88 · 03/06/2014 20:05

It sounds like he's actually quite poorly - in which case he should concentrate on getting better and then worry about the degree.

If he's up to it perhaps he can get some part time work that's manual/outside it could be helpful for his mood and prevent a gap on his CV. An ex of mine had a bad time just after university and working in local factory was really good for him, it kept him busy and social and he earned money but it wasn't mentally stressful (apart from when the supervisor was on acid!)

It must be horrible for you both but his health is way more important than a degree.

sashh · 03/06/2014 20:24

There should be a third option of leaving with a DipHE which is a qualification in its own right but can be topped up to a degree at a later stage.

creamteas · 03/06/2014 21:15

I would strongly advise your DS to get in touch with his student union welfare service. They can will know the 'system' at his university and will be able to advise what can, and can't be done.

At my university non-submission is automatically a fail, and therefore retaking is capped at 40% a bare pass. But with supporting medical evidence, he would be able to retake with no-capped mark if he repeated the year.

If I was his personal tutor, I would be advising him to consult his doctor, and get a note which stated that the missed deadlines were linked to his mental health issues. This would be sufficient evidence to repeat without a cap.

Overturning the failed mark is harder, but, depending on how his degree is worked out, it might still be possible for him to come out with a reasonable honours degree.

When you say if he repeats with capped marks he can only achieve a pass, do you mean a pass degree or that he can pass all the modules and get a 3rd class honours degree? They are different qualifications, and so you need to be sure.

Which it is will depend on the degree structure and will be written into the regulations. There are a number of different qualification possibilities for students who do not pass enough modules to get an honours degree (1st, 2:1 etc). These include an ordinary degree, pass degree, and DipHE and Cert HE, and a lot of people don't know the difference!

CarBootSale · 03/06/2014 21:51

Sorry to hear about your DS. It must be very stressful for you.

I went through similar with my first degree, I have a history of depression and completely fell apart during my final year. Didn't go in for any exams and ended up repeating the year. I can't remember the details of the procedures, but I know I had to submit evidence from my psychiatrist, and was treated as a new student (i.e. not resitting) so my marks counted as a first sit. This was a RG university.

I agree with creamteas that the student welfare service will know the details of the options available to him, it will be individual to his university. IME the academic/departmental staff often aren't aware of all the regulations. Making sure you get good medical evidence will help enormously. I would even consider paying up for a private consultation with a psychiatrist if necessary (because if you haven't been in the mental health system for long it can take longer to get an NHS referral, and a consultant psych letter will carry more weight than one from a GP.)

If he is still too ill to continue with his degree even if offered the chance to resit, then I would seriously consider taking a complete break (with perhaps some voluntary work/therapy to keep him active.) I also had to do this between my second and third years and it was better in the long term than pushing myself when I wasn't actually ready (although, as it shows, I still wasn't quite ready and so my first attempt at the third year was a bit of a disaster anyway...)

MillyMollyMama · 03/06/2014 21:57

A lot of employers know the difference!!! Questions will be asked re time at university and qualifications obtained. Life is hard for graduates now! If things have fallen apart so badly, is going back for another year akin to torture? What, realistically, will be gained? Try something that makes him happy.

UptheChimney · 04/06/2014 07:57

Your DS is in a difficult position. It's really frustrating to watch such apathy and inaction, but it's part of the illness, unfortunately.

It generally isn't possible to do retakes of third year, as it's the final year.Most universities measure 'exit velocity' in some way, recognising that students are likely to be better in third year than second year, and so on.

But my sense is that trying to cobble something togeher now is pretty pointless. His health needs to be his first priority. People still seem to havethe idea that university is "easy" -- an extended adolescent time at school. It's not. It's tough, you need to be tough, and that's entirely as it should be. University is training the next generation of professionals, thinkers, leaders. Students need to be healthy & resilient. His current illness attacks both those aspects of his character (a sort of anemia, I always think).

Knowledge is power in these situations. He needs to know what his options are. Not for now, because he sounds like he needs to ficus on becoming well again, and - if his illness is chronic - how to cope with it, in terms of triggers, lifestyle etc, as well as medication & therapy.

  • He should enquire about how long the credit points from his two years of study (1st & 2nd year) will remain 'live' so that when he's well enough, he can resume studies, either at his current university or another one.

He should enquire about back-dating a leave of absence/intercalation/interruption of studies (universities call this differnt things) so that he could return to his current university when he's coping better with hs health. And redo* the entire 3rd year. Frankly, from what you say, there's not much to rescue from his work this year.

He'll need to act quickly the month of Exam Boards is upon us. He'll need to be absolutely frank about his struggles with his illness. THis is difficult, particularly with a mental, rather than physical illness. He'll need to be frank about why he didn't seek help or mitigation before. Why students don't do this is incredibly frustrating from a tutor's pov, but understandable. However, we are bound by regulations, which exist so that all students are treated fairly. I once worked at a place that required evidence of a family death if this was being claimed as a mitigating factor there'd been too many "dead grandmothers." It seems inhuman, but it keeps everyone safe.

But he needs to be frank and open. His personal tutor first, or head of year, or Exams Officer. THe Departmental secretary/administrator will know. THey are generally the most knwledgeable person in any Department! (mine tell me what to do, thank goodness).

UptheChimney · 04/06/2014 08:00

I don't think your son's university are doing well by him though. He should have his mitigating circumstances considers for the whole period affected - whether he flagged it at the time or not - the nature of depression means that you're unlikely to be on top of your game to get the appropriate support at the time

That's not quite fair -- if the student doesn't tell us, and outline how they were/are affected, how do we know? We're not the students' therapists, doctors, or parents. While I've gleaned quite a knowledge of depressive illness by being an academic dealing with students' health difficulties, I'm not a medico, and I cannot make a professional judgement about the illness, only deal with its effects with evidence from a medical doctor.

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 04/06/2014 12:55

Some very helpful information here, thank you all so much Thanks

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intheenddotcom · 07/06/2014 07:42

Speak to student welfare first and foremost. It's unusual for a university to not have some kid of procedure for mitigating circumstances that will either take into account his 1st and 2nd years before the depression and project his performance forwards or let him resit/defer with no penalty. It might help to speak to the uni doctor (most have a practice for the students) as they are likely to have dealt with it before.

A pass is really not worth anything, so if he does decide to leave then make sure you get any examples of work you can, and a transcript of modules/marks to date. That means in the future if he does want to do a similar degree again he might be able to get his first two years partially credited.

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