DS and special circumstances request at Uni

[Eleanor02]

DS is finishing off his last year at university. His dissertation is due to be submitted tomorrow. However, he may not finish it on time. His progress was slowed down by a bout of tonsillitis a couple of weeks ago. (He saw the GP at the time, had the diagnosis confirmed and was prescribed penicillin because the infection was quite severe.) He was determined to carry on with this dissertation without asking for extra time, so said nothing about to the university authorities. Now he realises that it simply won't be ready by tomorrow and wishes he'd spoken up before as he's been feeling under par for about a month.

He could get a GP's letter by tomorrow to the uni and complete an extenuating circs form. But he's worried that this will be seen as suspiciously late by his department who'll make the decision. Does anyone (or anyone's DCs) have experience of a very late request for an extension. He won't need long though he does have a couple of exams soon.

Thanks!

Uni lecturer here. Doesn't matter how late you put it in as long as it is within the deadline for extenuating circumstances. There will be a formal one. If it is beyond that then you are a bit at their mercy. Normally a committee will meet to decide if these circumstances should apply and will probably be dealing with v v complex cases so yours is quite straightforward to some extent. They may not significantly increase his marks but it is worth putting it in.

Also he needs to speak to his supervisor ASAP and also the student welfare person. They may be skeptical but if he's hard working etc generally they will believe him and he will get a fair hearing.

Ah apologies. He can't not submit the dissertation. He has to submit as is. And then apply for extenuating circs to be considered. It is a year long work and all of my students left it to the last minute but that is not how this is supposed to work. He could attach additional research that he hasn't even able to fully write up as appendices and hope they consider it. He really needs to submit though.

Thanks all - you've made some very valid points and, yes, DS has procrastinated which was plainly daft of him. But he was wiped out for a few weeks, crucial weeks - on his course, students were submitting essays until just before Easter. There was little let up.

I'm worried that when I ring him first thing in the morning, he will have too little to submit - fragments perhaps. He's been daft but he's also been ill - don't know how what to say to him if things look very bad in the morning.

I think your DS might go to my University; ours is due tomorrow. I took a three week extension on mine in March, due to a bereavement and depression. He needs to submit and take to mitigation, but they might say that an illness like that only effects him in the short term, and he has had a year to do it- two weeks or so shouldn't have made that much difference.

He should submit what he has and then apply to mit.circs, try and get them to consider it when marking.

Agree with the others-he's been rather silly, but if he gets a request in BEFORE the due date, it should be considered. But I hope he learns his lesson ...

Different universities have different processes for dealing with these issues.

So make sure he knows exactly what the process is in his dept.

For example, where I work now if you submit work/sit an exam this is taken to be evidence of your fitness and consideration for the mark is possible. So you need to get permission for an extension before the deadline.

In my previous institution, no extensions were ever given before the deadline. You applied after the deadline for permission to submit the work late.

Find out the rules. The devil is in the detail.
Submit extension request ASAP.
Do this admin stuff as quickly as possible then get back to the real matter in hand - essay writing.

Yes check the website, and try to find the regulations/handbook guidance which will have more detail. Student services/union might have more advice on what evidence is most likely to be accepted.

Extenuating circs rules vary wildly across institutions, I've had to submit a letter for myself this year. The rules for our uni is that you have a month to submit the form, it's only accepted after the deadline passes, and if accepted then you get a reassessment opportunity during the summer resits. This means I'd get a new deadline around the end of July, and it's better for me to not submit anything now and just use the extra few months to work on my dissertation. But other universities have rules where they just give you an extra week or so.

I agree that you need to find out the exact rules from his tutor. Has he told his tutor? If not he should do so ASAP and get advice. The problem is at this stage going to see the university GP (who will be able to initiate a process within the university) is going to take time that could be used to try and put his diss into some sort of order to amass further marks. So you need to be sure it is worthwhile and will make more of a difference than just putting some slog into his work.

Frankly I would be more sympathetic if it were an essay crisis. My DD had a crisis at the end of the Autumn term when she had flu and had five pieces of work to submit by the end of term and lost two weeks out of her timetable for completing them. She too refused to highlight extenuating circumstances or get an extension and we had a very stressed two weeks with me delivering food parcels and intensive emotional support to get each piece of work to what seemed to her an unreachable finishing post, she did it but not without lost sleep and a lot of stress. One of those pieces of work was 2000 words of her diss which were marked as part of her overall mark so had to be finalised as the first fifth of a coherent whole.

He must have procrastinated on a grand scale to have only fragments at this stage. Has he had no contact with his supervisor to make sure he was on the right lines? no deadlines for drafts to make sure he is on track? have no alarm bells gone off? It sounds like avoidance on a scale that suggests he has really struggled psychologically. A dissertation is a formidable exercise for an undergraduate which is why supervisors and processes are put in place to guide and support a student. I don't understand how it has got to this stage, and there may be some argument that there has been a failure on the part of his Supervisor. Alternatively he may be giving you the impression it is worse than it is, to offload his worst fears and insecurities. I have a very big bag of those at the moment

However 10,000 words of some description must be possible in the next 24 or so hours, I have submitted 3 dissertations now and every one required a last minute all nighter.

Am I missing something? We don't know what the rules for this dissertation are. Some take all year, some don't.

I know creamteas has said it and I know she knows much more than me about it all, but it bears repeating - he needs to look at his own university procedures and follow them. TBH us offering guesses about how his dissertation might have worked and how extenuating circs might work is liable to do more harm than good.

Dear all

Thanks so much for all your replies - they have really, really helped me to see things more clearly. Needful as we were woken up soon after 5 am by a panic stricken DS who'd been up all night.

At first, encouraged by some of your posts, I strongly encouraged him to submit, along with the special circs form for mitigation. He beavered away but it wasn't going to happen. DH rang his department, didn't mention DS' name, and was told that he should get his dissertation in as soon as possible and the spec circs form at the same time. And that DS should see them asap. So, shortly before the deadline, he dropped tools and saw his department. Upshot is that he submits on Monday - at the start of his exam season - but that's what they said. And along with the spec circs form and GP letter. A panel will consider things so of course DS is very worried but he left himself with no option. He didn't think he should push his luck by asking for even more time.

Now may not be the time to remind DS that his proposal was accepted some months ago and that despite a heavy essay load, he could have made much more headway. His diss supervisor has only just come on the scene, however, and while the teaching is good at his uni, the level of tutor support seems oddly very poor. DS has never met his personal tutor - well once, at the start of his three years, when the tutor, apparently, told his tutees that it was unlikely they'd ever need to see him and that they certainly wouldn't see him about anything pastoral. How much of that is DS's interpretation, I don't know, but the hands off approach does seem at odds with the generally very good reputation of his department.

So, the diss won't be as good as it could be and completing it will interfere with exam revision but DS may have had a lucky escape. I've found today exhausting - back to work tomorrow and then maybe helping DS proofread - if he's even at that stage by the weekend.

LORD - you are so right - each and every institution will have its own procedures. In DS's uni, it appears that departments themselves have their own systems.

Thanks again. What you all said about DS' procrastination, notwithstanding the Easter illness, is spot on. But I think he's learnt a lesson without my saying very much at all.

DH rang his department, didn't mention DS' name, and was told that he should get his dissertation in as soon as possible and the spec circs form at the same time

Why couldn't an adult do this for himself? I'm sorry, but your DS has been negligent. He's had all year to work on the dissertation, presumably been offered a supervisor but not made contact-which is his responsibility, and didn't take action when he needed to.

His diss supervisor has only just come on the scene, however, and while the teaching is good at his uni, the level of tutor support seems oddly very poor
Frankly, it's unfair of you to say that, given what you've said about your DS's level of engagement. Firstly, it is the student's responsibility to contact the supervisor. You've said throughout the thread that your DS has not made the effort to contact people, even when he's in a panic, and, as a 21 year old (or thereabouts) still needs his father to contact his tutors. If I'd needed that, I'd have been curled up with shame.

Oh when his exams are over - I would mention to your DS that he might want to look over his notes again. Because he may well be a strong candidate to be called in for a Viva or Oral exams. This can happen when the external examiners want to check the grade boundaries are right, and especially targets students who have performed "oddly" or have had special circumstances. (It is worth revising for unfortunately.)

That's a bit harsh UpThe. I would have done similar in OP's position. When presented with a situation like this - with a very short timeframe in which to sort it - you do what needs must. Tear him off a strip after the dissertation and the exams if you want, but what he needs now is support to get him moving out of the fog of procrastination.

Thanks for updating us OP. Fingers crossed for him.

It sounds as if your DS is really lucky to have very supportive parents.

It does sound as if he's struggling quite a bit.

Now he's done, could he arrange to see the supervisor about the academic side and whoever his pastoral tutor is for that? That way if he does get asked what happened, he'll be prepared. Much better for him than worrying all through his exams.

I agree with upthe about ringing up and I also suspect that he was meant to be taking the initiative with seeing his personal tutor (though obviously the OP knows that or she wouldn't be pointing out it might be her DS's interpretation). The thing that does sound dodgy is if the dissertation supervisor has only just shown up.

Probably not the time for it right this instant, but given he may well be called in to explain himself, he needs to check: what is the rule for supervisions for a dissertation? These might vary from regular meetings all year, to, say, four meetings at specific times - he just needs to know so he can check over his emails and be sure that he's not missed meetings. Because if the dissertation supervisor really only has got in touch just now, unless there were emails clearly explaining to students that they had to get in touch and sort out meetings, I think that's poor.

Anyway, thank goodness he got it in. Let's hope it's better than he was worrying (things often are).

I agree with LRD and I think that UC may be being a bit harsh, possibly arising from his own frustration. There is no excuse for not getting in touch with your personal tutor when things are going wrong academically, that is what they are there for but often young people don't want to admit it is going wrong. I can think of at least three occasions when my DD should have gone to her tutor when she was placed in a seemingly impossible situation in terms of getting her work done because of circumstances beyond her control, and didn't, and one when I drove her there and made her go in, it is a mixture of pride, not wanting to make a fuss and thinking they will think you are swinging the lead. However she does get her head down and takes the consequences without complaint in terms of stress and loss of sleep and probably not doing as well as she should have done.

But I think there should be a process in place that supports students with their dissertation with a supervisor who makes a positive effort to come out of the woodwork and provides guidance at the start. It is a formidable exercise for a student and very common for them not to know where to start, have problems keeping it in the right direction and within bounds. My daughters diss has been supervised by a rather famous professor and he has been quite hard to get hold of but at the start he emailed her out of the blue and got her in to discuss with him what she should be doing. The course also has a process for submitting the first 2000 words and a plan at the end of the Autumn Term to be marked as 20% of the final mark which I think is a great idea. The final version is submitted well before the exams and then she has to give a presentation in June after the exams. Of my own dissertations only one wasn't closely supervised and that was my employers International Marketing Plan supervised by a fearsome Marketing Director!

If what you say is true I do think afterwards you may have some grounds for complaint if only to help students that follow.

His or her own frustration obviously, don't know why I can only guess why I assumed chimmneys gender was male

The thing is though, we don't know what the situation was. Eleanor says so herself, she's not sure how much her DS might be interpreting things, perhaps wrongly.

I know people do this, and I'm not trying to say it's a terrible thing - but if the DS does end up going in to an oral viva and he says something like 'well, my supervisor never got in touch' and it turns out everyone had an email at the start of term advising them to email their dissertation supervisors by week two, or telling them they had to attend at least two open hours, or whatever, he's going to weaken his case.

Agree wholeheartedly with UpTheChimney. Ridiculous that in final year, your DS is getting or allowing his parents to contact his department on his behalf. You need to step back and allow him to manage his own workload, as well as dealing with the consequences should he fail to manage it. Are you going to do the same for him next year, if he enters the workplace?

Personal tutors generally don't chase students; it's up to the students themselves to come and access support/advice if they need it.

As a third year student I'm afraid I agree mostly with UpTheChimney. It's totally normal to have to submit essays whilst also working on your dissertation. I had various assignments and essay due throughout the year, including after my dissertation deadline, so I had no choice but to manage my time and get on with things. It sounds like even without the unfortunate illness the OP's son had really left things too late.

And yes, the onus was on me to contact my supervisor if I wanted help/supervisions, although he did suggest I organise meetings when I was at various stages of the process. However, I could have chosen not to contact him at all until I was very close to the deadline, and it would not have been his job to chase me. In fact, if you don't contact your supervisor, they assume you're doing ok and don't need any help!

Pastoral support is available at most univerisities- but accademic staff deal with too many students to keep an eye out for problems. You're expected to contact people yourself if you need support. Some tutors will organise termly meetings, but as a lot of students seem to not bother with these (tbh they are not always much use if all you have to say is "yes, I'm doing ok.").

I'm glad OP's DS has got a bit of extra time though, and can also manage to do some preparation for his exams (hopefully as a third year he has been doing some preparation throughout the year and revision since at least easter).