Any lovely academics want to help me? I posted in chat then remembered it should probably be here

[YesIShouldKnowThis]

Hello.

I NC for plausible deniability and so this thread won't come up in searches of my name, but it's me, small, feministy, fire-breathing, sometimes to be found setting up academic chat threads and then failing to keep them going.

Can you help me? I'm having brain blank writing a job cover letter. I've written quite a lot of job covering letters, some of them ok'd by my supervisor, but she's busy, and also this situation is confusing me. I'm applying to the university where I did my undergrad, to do teaching cover. I fit the spec pretty well, but with some of it, the reason I know I can teach what they want is because, uh, they taught me to do it. And I mean literally - I was taught by the person who's teaching is being covered.

If I were applying anywhere else, I'd write '... and such-and-such is central to my research, which I would be delighted to teach' (or similar phrasing that doesn't make me cringe, which I've not yet tumbled to).

Here, is it better or worse to include the fact I know the course pretty well because I studied it seven years ago?

Thanks, and for letting me witter.

Good morning, diminutive scarlet fire-bird.

I don't think I would include the fact, or would do so only in passing - 'also studied an earlier version of this course'. Two reasons: you don't want to suggest that you would, if appointed, simply replicate a course now 7 years out-of-date; and any decent institution would expect you to bring your own slant to this material.

This is assuming you're in humanities. If not, ignore advice above and wait for someone else to come along.

better to say you know the course well from personal experience but also you know that it will have moved on & you are ... keen? excited? enthusiastic to have the opportunity to see what developments there have been in the field since and that you will get to impart to students.

enthusiasm is one of the top things they look for.

Morning.

Thanks very much - I am in humanities. That phrasing sounds very helpful. I have past and present specs for the course, so I thought I might pick out something that's new (if I can) and just mention how I'd tackle that.

I've taught the same topics elsewhere in the meantime, btw.

Cross posted. Thanks holiday, that's really helpful (especially as I never know about expressing enthusiasm - I've been given conflicting advice in the past. I'd prefer to do it so glad you say so).

I'm sure you probably know this, but do make sure you really tailor your application to the post.

I have been involved in shortlisting applications for teaching posts and a common mistake is to dwell on research (which you would do for an academic post) and barely mention the relationship to teaching. So when we are scoring applications against the criteria set out for teaching-posts, they don't do very well.

You need to really demonstrate how your teaching will be enhanced because of your research.

Good Luck

Thanks! Yes, I'm trying to tailor and I really want to get it right, because the teaching they want me to do fits brilliantly with my research and teaching experience.

I'm just hoping I get the balance right so if anyone has tips, I'm listening!

I'd mention it.

Speaking from the interviewer's side of the question: They'll know anyway & if you don't mention it, I know I'd think it a bit odd if someone didn't mention it.

I think it's a question of how you do it. The one thing you don't want to give the impression of is that you're complacent about "I studied with you, therefore you'll give me the job." (I know that's not how you're thinking!)

I remember interviewing people for a permanent job in a sub-section of a much sought after field (100+ applications etc) at a research-led university which wasn't Oxbridge. One interviewee, then just finishing an Oxbridge DPhil, when asked the first question, "Why do you want to come here (name of University) to teach & research X?" basically said (not in so many words) "Well, there are no permanent jobs in X field going at Oxbridge, so you'll do." Well, no, that candidate wouldn't do.

And second Creamteas advice are we the same person? a one-year post is about teaching, so make sure that's what you focus on. But if it's one of a bunch of places I think it could be, they will very much want research-led teaching. Because, as we know, the best way to push really really bright students is for their tutors to be at the top of their game, research-wise. So don't be afraid to talk about how your research informs your teaching.

Oh, and buckets of good luck. I know how tough it is in your field atm.

That's awful, what your candidate said! Crikey.

I think my research/teaching match should be decent. I'm lucky in that research on teaching is part of my research (if that makes sense).

I'm actually really excited about their courses and I'd love to teach them. I may not be shit-hot reseachy enough for them.

Ah well, must stop agonizing. That you so much for the help (and the luck!).

Oh, the candidate didn't say it like that! But it's what they were thinking ...

Mmm. Not great.

I don't really get that attitude, I've got to say.

I'd mention it, subtly. If/when interviewed say that having taken the course you can put yourself in the students' shoes to help them on their way. And again, at interview be cautious about suggesting innovations unless it is something you're on very firm ground. Slight tweaks, demonstrating you're learning from your own experience (group project timed differently.... Because...) but not: that module really doesn't work...

I'd also recommend searching the university's latest statements about how they relate research to teaching and say how you'd do this.

And yes, do lay out your application so they can tick off all the essential and preferred criteria. The short listing process will simply be about fitting you to the criteria. It's only at interview stage that the letter starts to kick in.

And show, state enthusiasm, but not "passion"!

BTW at a recent panel I sat on one candidate overran in their prepared PowerPoint. Not impressive. The other was able to answer well how she'd deal with group falling out on project, that sort of soft skills can carry you a long way. Experience with dealing with Moodle, reading lists etc is also well received.

One other tip: please don't say you manage workload by working nights or weekends. Even if true, you look like someone who cannot manage her priorities well. A sensible panel will also worry you might burn out.

Humanities lecturer here. First job was a Teaching Fellow post for a year (and then got a permanent job there). The course I taught then was based on one I had studied and I made it clear I was familiar with it BUT had changes to make to it. I can try and dig up my original cover letter to see what it covered.

Ok just checked. First para was on PhD and what it covered. Who my examiners were and why it was innovative. Second para on what courses I could teach and how that would fit their requirements. Additional stuff on what else I could teach eg I would add to their geographical breadth quite considerably. Another para on teaching techniques and methods (so I mentioned that I encouraged the use of primary sources) and also mentioned previous teaching feedback and awards won for teaching. Next para on future research and publication plans- very brief and to the point. Last para on how I could contribute otherwise- so as a colleague- I am international so mentioned helping with recruiting and mentoring etc. Hope that helps!

Potol that sounds like a perfect letter to me!

I have now sent the application off, but all of this will be helpful for next time, thanks very much.

loma - I ended up explaining briefly how I would could the university's unique resources introduce a new element to the existing module, and explained that I've done similar before and students find it helps with all the other areas of the course. So hopefully that'll be specific and non-controversial enough. I actually think their modules work really well, which is why I'm interested!

If I get an interview, I will likely be back for more tips, as what you say is really useful (and I've never done a presentation so I am nervous!).

potol - thanks, that's really useful. Mine was in a different order and I started out with teaching, but I covered the same things. I had a full paragraph on research plans but they'd stressed it was a career development opportunity so I figured it'd be important. Only one thing I don't follow - why do you mention who your examiners are? Is this conventional in all subjects? I've never seen that suggested, and I'm now wondering if I've missed something.

I have an American PhD and we didn't have a conventional viva- three examiners who had to each individually agree (I sent them chapters as I went along and then the final product) that the thesis was worth a PhD and they are three pretty big names etc etc. Happy to help with job talks. Good luck!

Thank you!

My external examiner is a big name - perhaps I should mention him another time. I'll ask him.

Wouldn't you mention your examiners on your cv? I did, but never in cover letters.

I hadn't, but maybe I should have.

Out of interest - what would the search committee do with the information? Would it just be taken as reassuring that the thesis was passed by someone who knows their stuff?

I've never seen examiners mentioned, but if they were, I'd take that as a way to place your research area.

Happy to help at next stage.

Good luck!

Much appreciated, thank you.

Yes, I always thought of it as a way to signal where my research was situated.

They are not technically my examiners but my 'dissertation committee' so I think I said my PhD degree was awarded for my dissertation titled XYZ. My dissertation committee included Prof B (my primary supervisor) and two other names and their institutional affiliation. Also I wanted to mention these other two people because they are UK based etc etc.