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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Do 1st year results really not matter?

29 replies

mumblechum1 · 29/04/2014 18:40

Ds is just coming to the end of 1st year. He specifically chose this course and Uni because the majority of the assessments are course work/essays rather than exams, as he always does much better on essay type stuff than exams.

So, he's been getting mainly 2:1s with a few 1sts and one 3rd all year, so far so good.

Just called him now to tentatively ask how revision is going for the 3 exams he has and he did one yesterday, did "a bit" of revision and is currently in the pub. Is not showing any signs of doing any significant revision as he reckons that as long as he gets 40% overall, which he's already exceeded, it doesn't matter what he gets in the exams.

Can this be right or do I need to stick a rocket up his ass (hypothetical question, he stopped taking advice/instructions from me a long time ago!)

OP posts:
littleducks · 29/04/2014 18:45

Depends on the course. Some courses the results don't count did your final grade others they are worth 25%

NotALondoner · 29/04/2014 18:46

For us we have to pass each module by 40%. If everything is 100% but one module is a fail, that module has to be again.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 29/04/2014 19:52

His course handbook will say whether these count or not - he can check.

It's surprisingly hard to go from a third to a good 2:1, though, I think, and usually anything where the mark doesn't count towards the final grade is preparing you for something else where it does, so it seems a bit daft.

Hopefully he's putting on the laid-back attitude a bit as he doesn't sound anywhere close to getting 40% overall (but it's trendy to pretend you do nothing, isn't it?).

senua · 29/04/2014 20:48

DS is being similarly laidback: he has done well on coursework / assignments and thinks the (few) exams are a formality. The only incentive to revise is the prospect of a Year in Industry which is only offered to those who got good enough grades (2i IIRC) in Year 1.

creamteas · 29/04/2014 22:04

It will depend on the degree course, but you should be able to check the programme regulations online.

The most usual pattern is that you need to pass each module, but you can fail individual components within in it as long as you 40% overall.

If students fail a module (s) up to a certain % of the year, they can usually retake in September. The exact amount varies between universities.

Beyond that they will either be offered a repeat or be withdrawn from the university depending on the overall performance. There is always a right to appeal against withdrawal though.

Original poster
mumblechum1 · 29/04/2014 22:47

Thank you all, I'll have a nosy at the uni website.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 29/04/2014 23:01

You might not be able to get to it - ours is behind a password link. But it'll probably be a PDF file so easy for him to send.

MillyMollyMama · 29/04/2014 23:54

Just an aside, but at the University of Geneva you have to get 4/6. So 66% in all first year modules and exams. One resit and if 4/6 not achieved you have to leave. 40% is easy isn't it?

SoFetch · 29/04/2014 23:59

On my course, they really didn't. You had to pass your first year In order to get onto the second, but overall results were calculated from second and third years. I think if you had failed/missed a module due to special circumstances the grades could be picked up from the first though.

chemenger · 30/04/2014 11:34

MillyMolly Whether 66% is hard to get or 40% is hard to get depends on how the exam is set. I could set an exam with a 40% pass mark that 10% of the class pass or one that 100% pass. I know that when our pass mark went from 50% to 40% the pass rate did not shoot up, just as when the mark for a first oscillated between 65, 70, 75 and back to 70 in the 80's the proportion of firsts didn't change significantly. In the US my impression is that good students regularly get more or less full marks in exams, here it is very unusual beyond first year to get more than 90%; different objectives in setting exams at work. 66% is a good 2.1 mark, if we threw out everyone who didn't achieve that I think there would be trouble.

webwiz · 30/04/2014 15:51

DD1 and DD2 both need 40% to pass their first years but DD1 decided she wanted to switch to the study abroad year and needed above 65% for that.

chemenger when DD1 was studying in the US she got 105% in an exam because she got extra credit for one of her answers. She loved the GPA way of working Smile

PiratePanda · 30/04/2014 16:05

At my previous place of employment, all you had to do for first year was pass so you coukd progres - first year didn't count for your degree. At my current institution first year counts 10%, which is still not much in the scheme of things. So don't worry too much about it.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 30/04/2014 16:09

Depends on the institution. But even if the level 1 marks don't count, I'd be surprised if anyone with that attitude came out with a good degree, to be honest, so let's hope he's putting it on a bit!

AMumInScotland · 30/04/2014 16:33

Universities are much clearer these days with their students as to exactly what is required in assessments and exams, so I would start from the assumption that he knows what he needs and knows how much revision will be needed for that.

Afterwards, when he has the marks, I'd be inclined to make polite enquiries about how much he'll have to adjust that attitude in later years as the course gets tougher.

It may be that he genuinely has revised enough to do fine - some people do better with revising if it's not last-minute. I usually didn't get panicky the day before an exam, because I'd been working for the month or so leading up to it and was better off not getting anxious. It depends if he's like that, laid back because he knows he's ok, rather than because he's arrogant or lazy.

drwitch · 30/04/2014 16:40

in most places they don't count so long as he passes them all. Need to get above 40% average, If he does 4 subjects, he can fail one course so long his mark is above 30% and it is not a required subject for his degree (i.e. doing an outside option). The idea is to allow students to take risks (say studying things they have not studied before) and to minimise the impact of different knowledge and skills acquired at school on the final degree class.

A student who scrapes a 40% average though will need to work hard at getting lecturers to write good references and may struggle to find good placements and internships during the vacations.

UptheChimney · 30/04/2014 17:46

It'll be in his degree handbook. Tell him to RTFM ... Grin

Most degree courses at universities I've taught at, don't count the First Year results in the final degree class. We recognise the extent of the adjustment to university: to more independent work; being away from home; going from big fish/small pond; to small fish/big pond; getting used to new work; getting used to new ways of working; learning how to deal with hangovers

But and it's a BIG but ...

How someone does in First Year is an indication pretty much of how they'll do generally. And I don't mean just his results: the study methods and habits, and attitudes to work are significant here as well. Sometimes extra awards & honours can be affected by 1st year results, even if the degree class isn't.

So ... He's doing pretty well -- just a bit above average, with those 1sts, but the 3rds ... It's fairly normal to have such a variation in marks received, but if he were one of my Personal tutees, I'd be asking him about what happened with the 3rds, and what he did to achieve the 1st class marks, and maybe ask him to reflect on the difference in his preparation & approach.

If he were my DC -- well, I think I might leave him to it, except for a few sceptical questions (and my DS would know exactly what I was getting at with those!). It's his degree.

UptheChimney · 30/04/2014 17:55

Should have added -- as others say, you need to PASS 1st year.

But your DS should be warned -- if he needed to adjust to university 1st year, there is a further real step up on entering 2nd year. The marks count, the work is harder, we academics are tougher, and we push. We expect more & more.

Original poster
mumblechum1 · 30/04/2014 18:13

I'm not really worried tbh, on the basis that he's comfortably on a 2:1 or possibly First path so far as his essays/assignments are going.

I gave up nagging/suggesting stuff to him at the GCSE stage; one thing about him being 250 miles away is that I can't see him not revising Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
mumblechum1 · 30/04/2014 18:13

He only got one Third and it was when he had flu and was falling asleep over the laptop.

OP posts:
UptheChimney · 30/04/2014 18:17

That all sounds absolutely fine! Good luck to him -- hope he aces his exams.

bigTillyMint · 30/04/2014 18:21

They did on my degree - counted for 25% IIRC, and cost me the first I could have got. It was worth it thoughWink

MillyMollyMama · 30/04/2014 18:28

Chemenger. The Swiss system may just mean all the students get good jobs and don't waste their money! I agree, there would be an outcry here!

Bluestocking · 30/04/2014 20:18

There might also be other consequences, particularly linked with options for studying abroad.
For example, where I work, if a student decides they want to study abroad in the third year, their first year marks are key. Firstly, if a student doesn't have a solid 2:1 in the first year, we would be very unlikely to allow them to study abroad. Secondly, we use first year marks when allocating exchange places, so the better a student has done in the first year, the more likely they are to get their first choice of host universities.
There may be other consequences at other universities too!

Original poster
mumblechum1 · 30/04/2014 20:41

He isn't interested in studying abroad, fortunately. Just a 3 year course then to Sandhurst. (unless he changes his mind but has had that plan since he was about 6)!

OP posts:
Bluestocking · 30/04/2014 20:55

If he's sure there aren't any consequences, and he's done well in his other assessments, then he's probably fine! However, I suspect your son probably knows he's done enough to pass with plenty of room to spare, and is just teasing you - is that possible?!