Cambridge application - would dd be at a disadvantage if she did 3 A2s rather than 4?

[MrsBartlet]

Dd (Y12) wants to apply to Cambridge to study English. She is currently taking English; History; RS (philosophy & ethics) and French for AS level.

At her school it is the norm for the oxbridge candidates to continue with all AS levels to A2 but I wonder if she would be better dropping French (her weakest subject and the one she enjoys the least) to free up time to do all the extra reading she wants to do to prepare for an English degree. I know the offers that Cambridge make are based on 3 A Levels but in practice would she compare badly to other candidates if she was "only" taking 3 for A2?

Educatingme, I know my DN was concerned about the percentage thing as I believe she got 1% less on her Maths than the min requirement but it didn't seem to matter in the end. Maybe because it was maths and she was applying for English?

I think she went on some summer course there too which may have been helpful?

Dd is at a super selective grammar so no excuse here either! With her 3 best subjects the 90-95% should be fine. She gets 100% or very close to it for everything she does in English. Really not so sure that she could get 90-95% for the French though!

She has had her heart set on Cambridge for a few years now but she has just seen some of her friends in Y13 get oxbridge rejections and I think this has made her realise quite how tough it is. She is being much more open-minded about her other options now!

Educatingme DS is maths not humanities. Although he is doing 4 A levels the offer was for three with the subjects and grades specified. He goes to a none selective rubbish state school so that may have had a bearing.
However he averaged 97% UMS in his AS exams and all the advice from Cambridge was that this was the most important criteria by far.

I have a friend who needed AAB (pre A*s at A2), and got ABBB. He was sure he could have got the extra A if he'd dropped one.

Thinking about how much Cambridge rely on UMS scores and that dd's French result will probably be considerably lower than her other subjects, am I right in thinking that they take an average of the 3 best scores for arts subjects?

You are righ, it is three, but she will be in competition with candidates with high scores across the board. Oxford's system is, I think, more holistic just at the moment.

Thanks. She will clearly need to work on getting her French scores up.

That would be good. French is 'harder' than RS (i know RS is ok but it is far easier than French to do well in and they know that). and therefore might be seen as more valuable.

I don't know about the averaging thing for AS: they looked at all DS's AS grades. The Cambridge colleges do slightly different things between themselves. Yes, I think if it's a non-selective school you are more likely to get a 3-grade offer even with 4 subjects.

From memory DS averaged 96% at AS and then got two A2 subjects at 100% with the other 2 at 98% and 96% (so 4 A*s in the event). That was maths, physics, chemistry and biology.

If her French AS does bomb she could always apply to Oxford instead, of course. It's not all that different.

Yvonne, I think that needs to go into media requests? why not report your post to MN HQ and ask them to put you in the best place to get some traffic. I'm sure they will be happy to help.

Why do you think Oxford if her French AS is no good, Educatingme? Would that be a better option? (your Ds's scores were amazing btw!)

I am thinking we might need to get a tutor to get her French up as it would be such a shame for that to let her down. She was doing great at it up until sixth form but she has had a real confidence crisis this year.

Students with slightly lower as level marks might try for Oxford as they do not request as level marks and do not give them the same weight as Cambridge. The two universities have developed slightly different systems of selection. Oxford has more pre testing and the ELAT is important. Students might try to apply to the one they feel fits their academic profile. There's no saying whether this works . I did hear an Oxford tutor say at open day that they are aware of problems with language marks and they are likely to consider 85 + ums acceptable.

I realise that sounds contradictory but if you have good ums marks you would include them in your reference for Oxford anyway. As I said earlier, Oxford's system at the moment could be said to be the more holistic of the two.

Thanks for explaining that Slipshodsibyl. We haven't ever looked at Oxford as dd has had her heart set on Cambridge. We live much closer to Cambridge than Oxford and so she has been there for lots of daytrips and been inspired. Also, one of her English teachers is a Cambridge graduate and I think that has swayed dd as well as she adores this teacher!

OP Philosophy and Ethics for some reason is regarded as a bit meh although the other subjects are fine. That said, do tell your DC to stick to three and not to plough on with four. It's fine and much safer. I don't have any DC not at/ through Oxford or Cambridge and only one who was insistent took four. In fact I had to persuade the latest to drop his fourth A2 and he's now holding a perfectly reasonable offer across three A2s. If he'd continued with four he might well have been asked to continue all four.

Slipshod you can only slide your AS UMS in through the school reference for Oxford and there's no telling at all that Oxford actually cares. I completely agree that a student should consider which application process his profile best suits as they're very different, though at the end of the day it would be small minded to assert the supremacy of one over the other.

My DD did 5 AS and 4 A2s and got into Cambridge but as a Cambassador she made a strong point to the potential students that doing 3 solid A2s was much better than 4 and have them question why one grade was maybe not so good.

(DS decided Cambridge was way too much stress, took her advice and did 3 A2s and is having great fun at another Uni)

Educatingme one of my DC got pretty much the same across four subjects including a humanities subject but opted for Oxford not Cambridge since he felt Oxford was somewhat more his type of thing. The best students have the luxury of choice - they shouldn't necessarily go for Cambridge because they have the requisite AS points. They should consider whether Oxford would suit them best, or whether Oxford may have more to offer, as it so often does.

venturabay - Religious Studies is listed on the Cambridge subject matters list as one of the approved A Levels. It certainly seems challenging to me!

It seems extremely challenging to me too MrsB!

Absolutely- It's just that the Cambridge system attributes a formal value to AS grades while the Oxford system uses pre-testing more. So if you likely to get a lower AS grade in something, avoid Cambridge, is all.

OP - did your DD apply for the year 12 English day at St John's college? DS got a place and it looks really interesting.

No, she isn't - I missed that one and I see the deadline has been and gone. It looks very good. However, she is going to the English Masterclasses on 22nd which is again aimed at Y12s, although not specific to any particular college.