applying to University

[BronzeHorseman]

My DD is currently in year 10. We've not given much thought to university yet other than her thinking about what she wants to do but some of the other parents are already starting to think about which university their DCs want to go to.
I didn't go to university so haven't really got a clue, but should I be doing anything yet?

Nothing really needs to be done, but it might help to look ay some uni websites to get an idea about what is on offer.

Does your DD have an idea about what she want to do for a career? This question needs to be answered first really. She doesn't have to have definite plans, an area of interest is good to start with.

One she knows what she is interested in, she can think about what A levels or other qualifications she might need. If she has no idea, then as a general rule, traditional subjects (eg English, History) leave more options open than more modern subjects (eg business studies, Media

There is a small minority of degrees that you need work experience to get a place, medicine & vet science are two of the main ones. But for most degrees, you don't need to have done anything outside of your qualifications, so plenty of time to think about what to do.

Thanks, she wants to do medicine and then psychiatry so she's got as far as deciding to do Chemistry and Biology at A level, she's not sure what work experience she will need but she's got a year before she's old enough for that - from what we can tell so far everywhere says she needs to be 16.
I've had a look at a few uni websites this afternoon and made some notes on A levels, she's OK there.

Thanks, she wants to do medicine and then psychiatry so she's got as far as deciding to do Chemistry and Biology at A level, she's not sure what work experience she will need but she's got a year before she's old enough for that - from what we can tell so far everywhere says she needs to be 16.
I've had a look at a few uni websites this afternoon and made some notes on A levels, she's OK there.

Its worth her joining a site called The Students Room - lots and lots of info about applying to Uni and has a VERY good section on applying to Medicine - especially useful if you yourself have no Uni experience.
www.thestudentroom.co.uk

Another useful site is - www.medschools.ac.uk/Students/howtoapply/Pages/UCAS.aspx

The main thing you can do now is visit Unis on their Open Days - there will be lots in June/July, and Year 10s are welcome. This will give her a really good idea about what 'going to Uni' is all about and a tour of Medical Schools within that will focus her head on that in particular. Check your local Unis for dates etc (and any other Medical Schools) and BOOK EARLY as they fill up very quickly.

She will also be eligible for lots of the pre-Medicine Summer Schools - invaluable for a UCAS application. See www.bristol.ac.uk/study/teachers/post-16/summer-schools/ as just one example.

For Medicine, she'll also need good relevant work experience or part-time work good options are things like care assistant in a nursing home that is, not always the glamorous stuff!

Also excellent GCSE results, as these are not only an indicator of success at A level but also for success at university.

Does her school not have any information? Does it have any track record of getting young people into medical school?

Lots of A*s are a must at GCSE and A levels at A grade or better plus relevant work experience to demonstrate a real interest. Read up all the information on the University web sites and you will find many do pre selection tests too. I would second going to open days as you will get first hand information. The main thing is to be extremely good at Sciences and be dedicated. Very many applicants greatly exceed the minimum academic criteria set by the Universities so you must present real commitment to stand out. Sheffield, for example, has 3000 applicants for 240 places so getting the right things on the application is vital.

have a look at this website. They seem to offer lots of things for secondary school aged children. First heard of it from the ucas coordinator at dc's school

Other people have given you good advice about medicine. However, I would suggest that you encourage your DD to think about other options that may also interest her.

Medicine isn't the be all and end all, and given that

• her grades might not be good enough
• she might not win the lottery that is medicine applications (60% are rejected first time around)
• there might be a better course out there for her - either more vocational (e.g. radiotherapy or nursing), or more academic (e.g. genetics or biochemistry)
• at this stage medicine will be one of the few courses she will have heard of, so she won't have explored the full range of options
• you don't want her to be blinded by the apparent prestige of medicine
• her ideas and preferences may change naturally anyway over the next 3-4 years.

I think it would be wise to avoid running down a rather narrow, blinkered path towards medicine before the sixth form has even begun (and even then, options should be kept open)

Whilst I would usually agree that options should be kept open, I do think medicine is one subject where you really have to commit yourself.

Competition is fierce. Absurdly so.

GCSEs will need to be stellar. A levels too, and in the right subjects. Biology and chemistry are usually de rigeur, but maths is also often greatly preferred.

Coupled with that, an applicant will have to start getting some work experience.

For anyone to make a go of this, they're going to need steely determination and focus.

rightsaidfred a little unfair to say that those wanting to pursue Medicine are narrow and blinkered.

Thanks for all of that. Her school have identified her as a potential Oxbridge candidate but that's the first we've heard from them about university. We'll have a look at those sites and take a look at St John's Ambulance. She's keen to go into psychiatry, she doesn't want to be a GP but other than that she's not made any firm ideas.

I'm not saying that all those who go down the medicine route are narrow and blinkered, but some are. When you speak to applicants, it does sometimes emerge that they have considered precious little else.

It's fine to commit yourself to medicine, but there's no way that you need to do so completely in Y10, and it's something that needs to be done as an informed opinion - not just about what medicine is, but you should be able to articulate why you don't want to do any other given subject. Quite apart from anything else, I believe that "why not nursing?" is a common question in medicine interviews.

It should also be noted that it's entirely possible to choose both A Levels and work experience that will keep options open for far more than just medicine - so it makes sense that prospective applicants do continue to consider a plan B.

If she's interested in psychiatry, make sure that she also explores the option of psychology (following postgrad training, she could become a psychologist - make sure she knows the difference between psychologist and psychiatrist), as well as mental health nursing. The dividing line between a modern nurse and a doctor is increasingly blurred - for instance, some nurses can now prescribe drugs, which used to be something that only doctors could do.

Rightsaidfred, I'd say if a young person is bright enough to do medicine and is interested in psychiatry, she should forget about psychology except as a possible intercalated degree during the medical degree. Clinical psychology is ludicrously competitive (UCL gets over 1000 applications for 40 places, KCL gets 800 for 20 and it isn't much easier anywhere else) and it isn't as well paid as psychiatry. Successful applicants typically have a First in Psychology (or a very good 2.1), a good MSc in a relevant subject, very often a Ph.D. and several years of relevant work experience on lowish salaries (not necessarily graduate level). Many are into their 30s by the time they qualify and as psychology posts are being very hard hit by the current funding problems in the NHS it is no longer a golden ticket to a reasonably well-paid job.

Psychiatry is a lot more secure from all that because it's the psychiatrists who prescribe the drugs. The mental health services would grind to a halt without drugs whereas (wrongly) it is perceived that they can stagger on without quite as much therapy and assessment, which is what the psychologists do. Psychiatry has been a less popular specialism in medicine recently and the Royal College is very keen indeed to entice bright young doctors into psychiatry.

Mental health nursing is much, much easier to get into than either psychiatry or clinical psychology, and a very bright person could progress a long way in it, with an excellent chance of getting financial and other support through work to do an MSc and a Ph.D. However, it's nothing like as well paid as psychiatry. Better option than clinical psychology, though, in my view.

I should explain I'm not a mental health professional but I used to work with a lot of people from all three disciplines and I know a bit about career structures.

Medicine is a career choice where looking at what unis want early can be sensible if daunting as different unis want different things and it's all a bit scary. I agree TSR is a useful resource.
Oxbridge is a bit irrelevent for medicine, a medical degree is a medical degree (inside the UK although Scotland and NI differ increasingly from England, Wales is only slightly different). As different unis want different things such as A levels required, grades required, grades of GCSEs required, other tests needed to be taken eg BMAT UKCAT, how much weight they put on these , many medical applicants go for unis that play to their strengths rather than fussing over which one is "the best". Voluntary work is very important, preferably not the glamorous overseas trip type of voluntary work.
It can get easy to get caught in the rigmarole of jumping through the medicine hoops though and not really think about whether you'd actually be happier doing something else.
After her exams when she has her grades she may have a better idea of what she wants to do although i presume she's choosing her A levels now so is thinking about the future already.
I agree that many people confuse psychiatry and psychology. Psychiatrists are involved in diagnosis, managing treatment regimes of people with difficult to control mental illnesses and deal increasingly with dementia as the population ages. Very few are "analysts" a la Woody Allen films. Psychologists do more psychotherapy although it is usually behavioural not the freudian stuff that mainly happens in American films.
Most easily treatable mental illness is managed by GPs who refer patients to psychologists for CBT more often than they refer patients to psychiatrists.
Many medical students have changed the specialty they want to do by the end of their degree when they've experienced the huge range available.

Both these links show 1 day taster courses for year 12s. Medicine obviously 'sells out' fast but you have time to wait for your dd to reach year 12. They only cost a few pounds and they're worth looking at for alternatives to medicine as well.

www.london.ac.uk/tasters
www.study.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/events/masterclasses.html

No doubt other universities do similar things - just depends on where's accessible to you.