Help please - Plagiarism

[DizzIzz]

Hi, please can I ask for advice especially from any uni tutors etc....
DD has today received an email from uni asking her to attend a meeting in 3 weeks time about 2 pieces of her work, where she will have to confirm if she has or has not attempted to plagiarise.

She is in her first year and is absolutely distraught. She has read the guidelines and the module in question is not her main subject. She has referenced the percentage of work required but had not included quotation marks, as in her main subject she does not include quotation marks, just reference and footnotes. Surely they will be able to see that the fact she has all of the referencing, she is hardly trying to pass it as her own?

Any idea what the outcome is likely to be? Thanks.

I feel OP is downplaying this or just not realising.
Your sentence about primary or secondary source is just not true, not correct.
It might be helpful if you gave us more info on what get main subject is and what this secondary topic is.
Because in all my studies: Russian literature, Russian politics, Russian history etc, (admittedly many years ago now) I just can not comprehend how she , well basically, (sorry to sound harsh, but it really dies appear as though this basic thing has not sunk on for her) hasn't grasped the difference between a direct quote and a reference.

How long till the meeting now? Any success with the student union rep?

The OP isn't the student. She is very far removed from all of this, so she won't know the whole picture and she will know that even if she knew, she can't do much. So I think it is tough on her, here.

I did understand that it was the op's dd we were talking about.

I see you did. I didn't mean to imply otherwise, but your comment made me think of things that might not be obvious. Excuse me if this is clear - but it occurs to me this might seem more confusing that it need simply because even if you google university rules, if you are not a student, you won't be able to see some areas?

If she's quoting a secondary source she needs to use quotation marks. If she's paraphrasing, she would just reference. I'm as sure as I can be this is correct - we have plagiarism tutorials and they're not subject-specific, and they all say this

LRD, you're utterly correct, and that's what worries me throughout this thread: that the daughter has not understood and made a serious basic error. So I hope this will be a learning experience -- not that any student should be ignorant of this. As I said upthread at every university I've ever worked at (3 continents for 25 years) students are given lecture after lecture, guideline after guideline, about honesty in their work.

I too agree. That's what's really worrying is that the dd hasn't grasped it. The difference between a quote and a reference is REALLY basic.
I can't comprehend how the dd can't know the difference and thus I can't understand how the dd has got herself into this.

It's the difference between quotatin& from a primary OR secondary source and paraphrase that needs to be grasped -- but the confusion might be the OP's, not her daughter's.

I sometimes think students are just really unthinking about this very basic ethical consideration, because they're so focussed on getting marks rather than actually learning. As we see in this thread, a student's work is being measured by the marks she receives, rather than her learning & understanding ...

Call me an idealist

quotation

We sometimes get skewy results in law where it would not be necessary to place terms of art also used in statute or case law in quotation marks on every occasion. But you absolutely don't paraphrase in your own words since that might lose the precise meaning of the phrase.

So it would be fine to refer to 'penetrative intercourse without an honest or reasonable belief in the complainant's consent' which corresponds closely to the statutory definition of rape and could well get flagged by Turnitin which will obviously contain the full text of the SOA in its database.

A legal reader in this context would understand the studnet was referring to the precise legal definition of s.1 rape again without quoting the definiton of the act and defences in full (which would take up a lot of space).

When we go and look we can spot these and don't chase them up. But perhaps a student doing another module in German would be at a disadvantage.

Morning, yeah I'm very confused because with my own eyes there are no quotation marks in 7 large pieces of my daughters work, just referencing and footnotes. All of it marked with decent marks in my opinion and no real negative comments.

To be crystal clear, I am not playing this down. The fact that we have had ourselves in such as state and come on here for support, why in my right mind would I do that?

The main worry was what her punishment may be. No joy with SU as yet but she is meeting with her personal tutor mid week so that's a start.

As it is first year then it won't affect her final uni grade. However it will be blacklisted on her academic file.
I am studying for my law degree and any act of plagiarism, however minor, also is recorded professionally against the offenders name and would have to be declared in any job application...etc but that is subject dependant.
For my Business degree it would be a stern telling off for the sort of offence you are describing and marks for resubmitted work would be capped at 40%

UptheChimney - as a silly naive parent, yes I am basing what my daughter has understood so far on her marks (I have also mentioned marker comments) ....... because how else can any parent do any other?

I would really like to think that you are not being derogatory.

I only just found out that you can access a turnitin style service over the internet for a few pound per paper. Could be useful to avoid a 'second offence' in the future.

I use very few direct quotes, the odd few (italicised, quote mark contained) words within a sentence of my own if it particularly appeals. I suspect she has not paraphrased enough perhaps? Has she had an originality report? Just thought, you could use one of the plagerism detection services on the piece now for some piece of mind as to the severity?

Lydia - thanks, we were a bit confused last night about turnitin as I assumed that as my daughter submits her work through this tool that it would show the plagiarism. DD is adamant that this is not happening and she goes through each step carefully. It's one thing she was going to confirm with the tutor mid week, but do you have to pay extra for the checking service?

The 2 pieces of work that have been flagged back to her now show all of the similarities in colour coded percentages, so she has this now but because it's come back in that format by the plagiarism panel if you like.

Come on you lot - don't give DizzIzz such a hard time! Don't fret OP this is not really the big deal you might think it is. PM me if you want. Nor is it that uncommon. From what you say I would class this more as poor academic practice than out and out plagiarism, particularly as your DD is only in her first year. Turnitin similarity scores can be easily manipulated depending on how the assignment options are set up - include quotes? include references? And if it is primarily composed of lots of 1% that would not to me ring alarm bells - what does is large sections of text that have been lifted directly without quotation marks and a citation. Depends on the subject, but as a scientist, if my students essays DON'T include phrases/concepts/theories/laws/references that cannot and must not be reworded and thus will appear elsewhere, I start to get worried - it usually means their work is imaginary rubbish!

I have seen this from both sides - DD2 was accused of plagiarism in her 2nd year and it was a salutary lesson to me how hard it hits some students. On the one hand the academic in me had little sympathy (how, after years of hearing me ranting about students who cheat could she do this???) but as a mother all my protective instincts took over. Of all my children she was the hardworking, earnest, honest one who always met her deadlines, did 150% of the work she needed to do, had always 'got' academic writing etc etc. I was also extremely angry with her university for informing her of the plagiarism enquiry at the beginning of her exams -she just went to pieces. Decided she had to quit her degree because she couldn't bear the shame, life ruined etc etc. I wrote to her personal tutor knowing he wouldnt/couldnt reply but he hauled her in straight away for a meeting. Universities don't want students to drop out you know!

Turnitin showed she had a short introductory paragraph of her essay that had been submitted by a student at another university - turned out to be DD1 who had sent DD2 her essay so she could look at the reference list (essays weren't on the same precise topic but the intro was relevant). DD2 took notes. She then lost all her essay on the library computer the day before submission (yes I know back ups and all that but I know she did because she was in tears on the phone to me at 10pm trying to access the computers temporary folder and had to cobble it back together in the short time available - wouldn't dream of missing a deadline!). She forgot/overlooked in her panic the fact that she hadn't written that paragraph and it was direct notes from DD1 essay.

My advice to DD2 - admit it, explain it, apologise and say you won't do it again. Her essay was capped at 40% and that was the end of the matter. Of course, she is now carrying a 40% mark which will probably scupper her chances of the first she so desperately wanted and I am secretly devastated for her but that's life I guess. She'll get over it.

Just another point - whether you daughter can see the similarity scores etc depends on how the tutor sets up the assignment options - they can choose to let the student see it before submitting (ie use it as a teaching tool - my last university did this) or they can choose not to let the student see it.

Mytholmroyd - thanks for your support, my DD is so similar, she would be mortified if she missed a deadline and is so keen to do well. She is not a natural, but works hard to do the best she can.

I think some people, and I don't necessarily mean anyone on here, need to realise that this kind of thing does not indicate out and out cheat - I almost feel as though she may as well be a terrorist or a drug smuggler, but yes I know she has basically messed up.

My DD just felt like her life is over and was talking about going out in her car and driving it into a lamppost, which although extreme, no parent wants to hear. Throughout school, it has often been acknowledged by teachers that she always knows the difference between right and wrong and these kind of morals don't just vanish.

Sorry your DD may not be able to get her first.

As an academic we really really don't think that a student who makes a mistake regarding correct referencing, especially in the first year is an out and out cheat. I can guarantee that!

I've met students who set out to deliberately cheat and do wilfully bad things to pass off other people's work as their own. They, like your DD, often felt under pressure to get good marks but that is an explanation not a defence. The things they did could not possibly be defended as sloppiness, or based on a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the rules. And when we confront them they lie and bluster and refuse to own what they have done and get all legal on us.

BUT I see sloppy first year referencing every year and depending on the scale we exercise a wide range of discretion in response to it. We are not hard nuts. And despite some comments on this thread I can see that quoting and referencing practice will vary between disciplines. What seems obvious in Eng Lit may be totally different when doing secondary analysis of a quants dataset in Politics.

And academics do it too. My husband reviews dozens of papers in his science field every year and discovers faked results and poor attribution in a huge number. The principle is straightforward - don't commit fraud and don't lie about your results but when the chips are down academics are corruptible like their students.

We should have high standards, but we should show some humility too.

Thanks DizzIzz - c'est la vie!

I think some students get to University with no concept of acknowledging the work/words of others and I think it has got worse with the advent of the internet which muddies the waters somewhat and makes it very easy.

But I agree with the poster up thread who recommended Cite them Right - it will be in the library. Also, she needs to look at some journal papers to see how academic referencing is done in her subject and just follow that. It's one of the reasons I have always refused on principle to do my children's homework - despite the school telling me I have to. I think it's an awfully shortsighted thing to be telling children that it is okay to submit their parent's work as their own!

I doubt the University would have brought this to your DD attention if they did not have concerns and its hard for me to comment without seeing the work and originality report but look upon it as a positive thing - better she gets it sorted out and clear in her head now in Year 1 when her marks will not count(?) towards the final degree.

mythol - it might not rule out a first. I had to resubmit a masters assignment so was capped at 40% but because of the way the final mark was calculated i still got a distinction.

In my experience, many new students have got into the habit of cut-and-paste at school and think that using material from website pages isn't plagiarism, because 'they aren't books'. They are often also poor at referencing - they might reference direct quotes but they don't reference paraphrasing which looks like they are passing idea off as their own.

We have had students at our uni who

a) directly pasted from other students in the first year (a huge 40% of an essay) and
b) directly pasted in to their dissertation from the marking tutor's essay

I'm having trouble in my own dissertation working out where my own thoughts end, and others begin. In both of the above cases, the students went to academic appeal and did a re-sit.

That's all that will happen. A re-sit. Her life isn't over. It's more common than you think. Don't worry.

Thanks again to everyone for replying.

No-one is being 'harsh' here.

In fact, it's quite rude of the OP to have a go at someone for explaining the situation.

The OP has been told several times that it is unlikely her DD is correct she doesn't need to use quotation marks (and that stands even if it's a situation such as penelope describes), because she should understand this basic issue. Obviously, the DD may know this and her mum may not, and obviously it's not a big deal. Students get things wrong. Parents get confused about what their adult children are doing. Fine. But it's not 'harsh' to point it out!

Universities don't spend time catching plagiarising students for the fun of it. IME these things are explained over and over again, and students are told the rules.