Geography or Geography and French Degree

[lalamumto3]

Hi, my DD is very keen to do either Geography or a joint degree in Geography and French. She has really good GCSEs all A* and As, and is currently doing English Lit, History, Geography and French, but no sciences.

Any advice please? Advice on good Unis and courses gratefully received and any taster days etc that could help her firm up her thoughts.

Also she is very aware that she needs to read widely etc and has been attending Geography lectures, is there anything else that we could look into for her?

Does she know what 'sort of Geography' she wants to do? Human or Physical? Or both? This can help narrow Uni choices. Also look at unfamiliar subjects like Anthropology and International Development. Try and go for a course with a Year Abroad or a work placement as these really do give an edge in future job applications.

There will be lots of Uni Open Days coming up in June/July for Years 10 and 11, and these are really worth going to. They focus and motivate, and give them a clear idea of what these subjects are like at uni. Doesn't have to be at a Uni she might apply to, any local Uni will do. Look also on your local Uni website for any Public Lectures that are relevant.

Start 'wider reading' outside the obvious A level syllabus. Look on Amazon etc for text books aimed at first year undergrads. You don't have to buy them - you can get them on inter-library loan from your local public library.

Hi Mrs Bright, thanks so much for your reply. I think that because she does not have a science at AS, she is thinking of Human. Great advice re reading will tell her to have a look.

PS. Good info pages on The Student Room ...

Geography - www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/geography_degree#Introduction

French - www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/languages_degree

Choosing a subject - www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/help_choosing_a_subject

Personally, I never like to see degrees in mixed subjects. Employers mistrust them. They look like the person doing them didn't quite know what to do or were not really good enough to do a 'proper degree' in a recognised subject.

I did geography at A level and looking back would have preferred to do it as a degree (especially human/economic geography) but chose biochemistry instead as I also had biology and chemistry A levels.

Employers mistrust them

Do you have any evidence to support this?

My experience of graduate employment rates following university is that, with a few exceptions, employers value a wider skill set.

A joint degree is only a disadvantage when the degree is closely linked to the career (eg full law degrees are an advantage over half degrees when going into law, but not for other jobs).

Joint degrees are often harder. If you are studying a subject full time you have a better general understanding, and more space to develop the right skills. But you do benefit from a wider knowledge, and that does help get a job.

My DW lectures in a university business school and does lecture a number of students on joint business and language degrees and frankly those students will struggle to get a job. The plain fact is businesses can always get native French speakers (who also speak English) who have a degree in a single subject discipline.

UK students can never compete with that with a few rare exceptions.

lalamumto3 - your DD would be far better doing Geography as a degree and spending a year out before university and all her holidays working in France maximising her spoken French and then she can write on her CV she is fluent French speaker and demonstrate it at interview. Possibly even be interviewed in French.

Totally agree with Creamteas.

Times have changed. Employers value breadth of study, especially with an obviously usable skill like a language.

Joint subjects are certainly not seen as easier or some sort of second rate degree. Quite the reverse.

To be brutal - and lets face it the world of work is brutal.

A joint language and something else degree is neither one thing nor another degree. Employers look at it that way. Employers like to pigeon hole and will decide in minutes whether they want someone.

For the massive variety of jobs available to dual-skilled grads - www.multilingualvacancies.com/vacancies/french-language-jobs.php

Employers certainly like people with languages. You don't need a degree in it. They want people who can speak and operate in (and read) a language. Not have a degree in it.

Also as a woman your DD does need to make sure she does not end up being pigeon holed as the 'bilingual secretary'.

I have seen that happen in the City a lot where men who speak a language not very well end up on the trading desk earning millions.

I'm a geography lecturer (have name-changed so as not to out myself).

Most geography degrees start with equal weighting of human and physical, though there are some places that offer just human or just physical. After that (in the second and third years) there's more chance to specialise (though students can generally continue to mix human and physical). Most places offer both a BA and BSc, with the assumption that BA students are human geographers, and BSc physical, but you can often switch between. With the AS/A levels your DD has, BA would be the likely route.

Most of the big universities (old and new) have decent geography departments, teaching a range of different kinds of geography (it would be worth browsing websites). It might be more a question of your DD thinking about the kind of place/university (i.e. city/smaller town, campus/not campus etc.) she'd like to study in.

As for the Geog vs Geog/French option, it might be possible to take French in the first year and see how it goes, and/or consider a semester in France with Erasmus, as alternatives to a joint degree, though I don't think there's anything wrong with a joint degree.

One thing is that there's probably far fewer places that offer joint Geog/French degrees so that would reduce your DD's choice a lot.

Hi thank you all for your replies, it is really helpful to get other views and opinions. I had not realised that joint degrees were so controversial. She is pretty fluent in French and I think that it is not so much the studying of French, but the ability to demonstrate her fluency that she was thinking of. I will show her this thread as all of your comments are really helpful.

Geoglecturer can I ask what kind of extra things you would like to see an applicant has done. She is going to look at some extra reading and has started to go to some talks which has really spurred her interest.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

To be honest I'm not really involved in admissions so I can't really comment. Sorry not to be more helpful. I'd imagine that doing stuff that interests her would be the best thing, and would look the strongest on her application.

I did a joint degree - geography and environmental biology. My experience was that, as others have said, it was neither one nor the other. It restricted my choice of courses within each subject and was not well co-ordinated between departments. However, those were the subjects I loved and getting a degree is about much more than the subjects you choose. I rarely use either subject in my current job but regularly use the other skills I learned. I can see how French would be a good subject to have. Does your DD have any idea about what she would like to do after unit with Geography?

There's a world of difference between having good A Level standard French and degree level. Unless your dd is going to spend a year or two in France then she won't be anywhere near as fluent as a French graduate. Learning a language is also about being able to write it in formal situations, not just conversation. And languages graduates are rare, and yes, employers like them. Joint honours Geog/French sounds good to me!

A lot of universities now allow students to do one or two modules a year from other subjects alongside their chosen subject, rather than doing a joint degree. I imagine that languages are a popular option for this sort of thing as the marks don't necessarily count towards your degree and therefore you can afford to choose a more 'risky' subject. I know particularly at UCL they very accommodating for students wishing to take on a language.

I have a degree in pure maths and French (from a long time ago obviously). I did maths modules with the straight mathematicians, so reached exactly the same standard, but they did other areas of maths (mechanics/stats etc) while I did French. Similarly, I did all of the language options with the straight linguists including a year living abroad, but they did literature/French history etc while I did Maths.

I found that employers looked very favourably on the combination. To find someone who is mathematical, who can speak a language and who has lived and worked abroad for a year was relatively rare and proved to be extremely popular when I applied for jobs. I'm sure that the same would be true of geography and French.

Hi Umbrellahead and Scoobyblue. Thanks so much for your replies. I think that we will definitely continue to investigate. Her passion is for Geography, but she wants to get her French up to a very high standard. We spend a lot of time in France and she has French friends with whom she chats away in French.

thanks again