DS needs Feb half term off from uni

[roseka78]

Last January we booked a family ski holiday for next Feb half term. Eldest DS was in Yr 13 at the time. What idiots, being parents new to this uni lark we didn't consider the fact that universities do not have half terms! DS he is a cautious type and will not rock the boat by asking his personal tutor or any other support staff if he can have a week off. He says he cannot miss a week of lectures and lab work (lectures are put online though) although he says obviously he would still love to come with us. Cancelling his place will cost us a lot because of losing the deposit and paying extra supplements plus amendment charges - not to mention that we would love him to come with us. My question is, should I contact the uni myself to see how the land lies, at the risk of looking like a helicopter parent, or should I bite the bullet and leave him to make the decision which in all likelihood will mean him not coming. We have to pay by 24th Nov and if we are cancelling his place then we need to give them as much notice as poss. Any advice gratefully accepted

Just make sure he lets you know by 24th November before you pay for it. Unless he's missing something vital I'd be encouraging him to come too, especially after reading DoctorDoctors helpful post, but ultimately the decision is his to make.

Term-time is only about half the year and every part of it is necessary. It would certainly put him out on a limb a bit to take a week off. The expectation really is that you are in residence and working during that time. He would be shortchanging himself and his tutors if he sloped off for a holiday during term.

And I agree with others that he has made his decision and it really isn't appropriate for a parent to contact the university themselves to get another view.

Very frustrating to lose the deposit., but so many important and unfamiliar decisions are being made in the build-up to a student attending university that it is easy to imagine this slipping through the net. Bite the bullet and lose the money, or invite a friend along.

I'm also a university lecturer, and I'm with your ds that it's inappropriate even to ask for a week off mid-term for skiing. We'd be most unimpressed at the lack of commitment to a short intensive university term. Undergraduates have long holidays already - this gives them plenty of time for ski trips out of peak season already.

I'd just lose the deposit or invite someone else, rather than pressure ds to ask this.

And as for asking as his parent - Oh no. He's over 18, he's an adult, and this is his call.

Some harsh replies, you were not to know when you booked and were not to know whether it is easy or not to take a week off if you have no experience of Higher Ed.

It depends on the course and the uni. DS does medicine so there is no way any time could be taken off as he would miss too much.
DD does a social science and her timetable varies, some weeks she has loads, others she only has a few lectures. She hates missing things, especially if there is an exam on that lecture as it is hard to catch up when you weren't there. Her uni don't record lectures- that is another thing to consider. DD also has an enhancement week half way through each term where everything is optional, but if i remember rightly it never falls on half term week.

If your DS had said no (and it takes a lot to say no to a week of skiing!) then that is your answer I'm afraid.

In my first year, most of my labs were associated with coursework. We also had a lab series for one module that was partially marked on attendance. Missing labs was usually not allowed without propper extenuating circumstances (going on holiday would not be accepted). At the majority of universities, I believe the majority of labs are compulsory attendance (which is obviously very different to lectures).

Your DS is probably also aware that he may have coursework to do at this point in the term which has not yet been set by lecturers. Any group work, especially, will cause issues if he is not in this country. He may also be set something like a presentation to present during that week (I admit this would be bad luck but it is not impossible). As he is aware of this, he will probably feel committing to a week off is imposible.

It is not like school where there are lots of second chances given for late coursework.

Also, instead of reading week in the first year, I had field weeks, which meant I was expected to attend various visits to different locations, and take part in field work. This was also compulsory and the data collected formed a large part of the coursework for one of my modules.

Tell him he has to decide for the 24th. Tell him it will cost you money to cancel, and you really want him to speak to his tutor. They will not be cross with him for asking a question. However, it is unlikely a tutor would discuss his accademic situation with you unless he agrees to this.

However, I do think you have to accept that the answer may be that it's not possible for him to take a whole week off, and commit to this several months in advance, when he doesn't know exactly what work/deadlines he will have at that time.

If he were in my Department, he would be told straightforwardly that this kind of absence has no excuse, and we would treat it as an unauthorised absence. 3 or more absences for any reason is cause for an investigation into a student's attendance, so you don't play games with voluntary absences --you save them up for when you really are ill, or there's an actual crisis or emergency.

If a student still decided to go on this holiday, having been told very clearly and transparently of our expectationss of what's called 'reasonable diligence' then he would have to bear the consequences.

And in my department lapses in attendance for things like holidays in term time!!! do have consequences in limiting other things they may be eligible for.

He shouldn't go. Simple really.

And PS, these are not harsh replies. This is the reality of university in 2013.

People complain moan and bitch about fees, not enough contact time, what am I paying for, blah blah blah.

And then someone seriously asks about an undergraduate's "need" to go on holiday in the middle of a University term. Oh fine, I'll just pop off for a week snorkelling in February ...

Parents who put ski-ing holidays before the offspring's undergrad education don't put out v good messages about the value of said education, which, in my opinion is priceless, and the parents should take the financial hit of the cancellation of the holiday without a murmur and give up the emotional blackmail. The DS is growing up and has left home. Ski-ing holidays at Feb half term are over. Deal with it. He has told you months in advance that actually he cant go, its not his fault there is a cancellation fee. I feel sorry for the son. I can see years ahead of mum blaming him for the absence of family holidays. What will OP do when DS wants to travel with friends in the summer? Let us hope for everyone's sake there is a reading week and that OP has learned a lesson and recognises the family dynamic is changing. I sound harsh I know but only because after Feb half term there will be easter and summer and October half term.......

Oh, and there probably will be a very cheap varsity ski trip he will want to go on.

There is a really evil side of me which is sorely tempted to advise OP to ring DS's senior tutor to explain about the ski trip (as she suggests) and ask for the time off (as she suggests) and perhaps, while on the phone , ask for a mitigating circumstances form for the compulsory lab time lost (which DS has told her about).

I don't realise how anyone could not realise their DS was doing university terms, not school terms. Take a friend instead is the sensible advice. Next time book Easter or Christmas and talk to him first.

I never took any time off college when I was at uni. The terms are fairly short and intensive, there is a month around Christmas for skiing, as it's not school holidays it's cheaper to go then.
You say you "have " to go when the younger son is off school so it's unclear why you consider you older son's university term a lesser priority. I'd say university is more important than school. If you "can't" go when one son is at school then you also "can't" go when the other son is at college unless he is somehow less important? It doesn't make sense. You made a strange mistake and have to lose the deposit or take someone else.
In Scotland even the schools have different arrangements for Feb half term (my son at one school gets 2 days and my daughter at a different school gets a different week.) I would never assume any educational establishment had a particular week as holiday (apart from xmas and new year and even they vary a bit) without checking.

I've worked at a couple of different universities (in addition to those I attended as a student), as has dp. Neither of us has come across reading weeks which coincide with school half terms - reading weeks often tend to be put just before exam periods or at the start of a new semester (to give staff time to mark exams and for exam board to meet etc).

Tbh if you would phone up university, they should not even discuss your ds with you, due to data protection. The only department in the university who can discuss a student with parents/next of kin etc are student support who only do so in emergencies.

At my old institution, lab classes had attendance criteria associated with pass/fail. If you failed a lab module, you automatically failed the year as resits for labs are just not logistically feasible.

Is he paying fees via student loans? In which case it is very much his decision and the right one. The cost of that week's education should, at minimum, be set against any loss of a deposit on a ski holiday.

And get ready for it to become tougher as well. Between differing half terms / reading weeks (which in any case in DDs case mean just that,"reading" and essay writing! plus two labs that couldn't be fitted elsewhere ) and internships we ended up with separate holidays with our DDs this year. And she realised whilst doing the work she needed to get done during her reading week that she couldn't even accompany DH to the Rugby on Saturday. It's their life and they have to get on with it, you can't expect to be first priority anymore.

Generally speaking, most uni's have exam week in February. New semester tends to start after this. So, depending on his uni, and whether he has exams or not. He might be able to take the week. THis is how it worked for me.

I had a week off between semesters while some friends of mne had exams. My degree for years 1 and 2 was mostly coursework based. Only exams in 3rd year.

We also had a reading week. So it may be worth him trying to find out dates for this as well.

There is no point contacting the uni, they are generally not allowed to speak to you because of data protection.

Your son must have known the term dates from the start of his course at the latest.

There are occasionally reading weeks but these are usually the week before exams or at the end of a semester. The only time I've seen reading weeks given at half term has been when an HE course is being delivered at an FE institution (I have been to 5 universities).

I think your best bet is for younger DS to invite a friend and just charge the parents (if he can find someone) the change of name.

Expensive lesson.

For goodness sake people, the OP has explained she has no experience of University terms; some very superior attitudes on here.
OP when I was at University, many years ago, you could miss one lab and you would be awarded the average of all your other lab marks for it. The laziest of us used to just skive one lab as a matter of course. Worth checking if something like this is in place, especially if his lectures will be online and his attendance is otherwise excellent.

It's not a superior attitude. My parents had no experience of university terms when I went, so they found out about them. It was fairly obvious they weren't the same as school terms as they start later (alot later if you attended secondary school in Scotland). If the OP had said that she was annoyed that she'd booked a place for her son on the holiday without checking his term dates there would be more sympathy for her. The lack of sympathy is because she now knows he will be at college and still wants him to go, where as she says she wouldn't want her younger son to miss school for a ski holiday. It does give the impression that she doesn't consider his course to be that important.

I think the OP was asking for advice rather than a telling off. This isn't AIBU or the 'naughty queue' outside a primary Head's office.

But what irritated me was that the OP seemed (this may be a false impression on my part) in her first post to be asking how best her son could take a week out of his course work. She didn't seem in the first post anyway to see this as problematic. She seemed more concerned about how much money it was going to cost them.

And from my point of view as a lecturer, this attitude IS highly problematic. Particularly when I get the excuse/complaint/moan - at least weekly - from students that "It's costing me £9000"

Resting my case...

Do you have some constructive advice for the OP, instead of pretending to be class monitor?

Moominmama, sadly for the op, I think the most important phrase in your post is 'many years ago'!

I know I am coming to this late, but things have changed at uni since the 90's. I am currently doing biomed at a RG university. Unless we had extenuating circumstances, there is no way we could miss a lab. Each lab is worth between 6.5 and 11.5% of the final module mark; missing one lab means a score of zero. One score of zero and you have failed the module, regardless of what you have scored in the rest of the labs, Therefore you would have to resit in the August and would be capped at 40%

I wouldn't consider a skiing trip important enough to miss either labs or lectures. At the end of the day he or you are paying £9000 for the privilege of studying at university. As others have said university semesters are quite short, therefore there are plenty of weeks for holidays to be arranged that do not clash with university term time. Oh, and as a parent of a school child and a preschooler, I would love to have the half terms off!