AS level results and medical school

[silver73]

DC1 has just had AS results (history A biology A chemistry B and maths C) and very worried as wants to apply to medical school. The problem is that DC1 does not want to continue with A2 history and wants to carry on with A2 maths. I have just spoken to a tutor that helped DC1 a few times and she said that DC is very able and would have no problem getting an A grade in maths. However, all medical schools need an AAA prediction and I cannot see school predicted him an A in maths when he got a C. Anyone else been in this position and got out the other side?

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If the predicted grades go pear shaped he can always apply next year with his A grades and use the year out to do something productive, fun or both.

Best bet is to beg for high predictions.. is the tutor actually at the school? He may struggle to get predicted an A from a C, BUT if he is usually an A grade student and the exam was just a bad fluke they may well do that anyway..schools are usually generous:)

On the other hand if he is actually working at a C, he needs to be realistic. A level maths is very hard and A2 is harder than AS by quite a bit. My DD1 did Bio, Chem and maths to A2 and the only time I saw her cry since she was little, was after the Core 4 , final maths paper! The competition for medicine is incredibly tough as I'm sure you know and this year quite a few places wanted A*AA.. he needs to be sure he can really get those grades.

If they won't predict them but he;s capable , he would be best of getting the grades, as Nigglenaggle says, and THEN applying. A gap year would give him the chance to beef up the work experience etc which is really important for the personal statement. My DD1 did get the grades and went to med school (at Peninsula and loving it) and she was surprised to find she was often the youngest in her group being 18 at the start..many of the students were older, so a gap year is not a bad thing!

If you can persuade him to drop the maths and keep history however it would be easier..!

Thanks very much for both of your helpful replies. I am not sure what has gone wrong with maths but he has not found the teaching at school that helpful. We got him a tutor for a few sessions and he found he understood everything she went through. She said that he is very able and gets things first time....

He could drop maths and carry on with biology, chemistry and history but unfortunately he refuses to carry on with history and he thinks he is less likely to get an A grade in it at A2 even though he got a very high A in his AS levels.

It is a very difficult position for him to be in but we will just have to support his decision to carry on with maths, beg for an AAA prediction and if he does not get it do a gap year.

Someone on The Student Room suggested that if he does not get AAA prediction then apply for another degree which he could start straight away if he does not get AAA at the end of year 2. He can then try to get in as a graduate. He is not that happy about that but it is always a good idea to be thinking of a plan B just in case.

If he really doesn't want to do History to A2 then there's nothing worse than pressuring him to do so. He'll resent it. If the teaching at his school doesn't chime with him then perhaps supplement it yourself with someone he likes. As I see it the main problem will be securing top predictions before he's had a chance to demonstrate that he's improved, by the deadline of Oct 15th. And offers for 2013 look set to be tougher than 2012, so lots of schools will be asking for an A*, making AAA predictions not especially competitive. I'd say stick with Maths, supplement teaching and max out on work experience and extra curriculars relevant to the career. And apply this modestly this cycle for interview experience if nothing else but be prepared for a gap year.

I meant apply modestly this cycle. I type too fast :(

He could try to get in as a graduate and would be more likely to be successful, but I strongly advise not encouraging him to saddle himself with 8 years worth of debt (what he will do of course, is up to him). I know someone who has done it (before fees for the first degree) and ten or twelve years later she still cannot afford a mortgage - no career is worth that degree of financial sacrifice.

Thanks again for your replies. We have talked and come up with a plan. He is aiming for AAAa. He already has the A in AS level history that he is going to drop.

He is going to carry on with the tutor he gets on well with and he is using a good online maths resource. He has already started working on the maths papers he wants to retake in January. He has a friend that got a C this time last year and got an A this year who also had to take a gap year so he is feeling quite positive.

He has loads of long term voluntary work in a variety of areas and has said that he will continue to volunteer during his gap year if he needs to.

Graduate medicine is even more competitive than the A level route.. so even aside from the mahooosive debt he would have (10 years in total!) it's a massive gamble to do a degree you don't want in the hope of getting into medicine later.. he's definitely best off working his head off now!

Just a positive for you.. my DD2 did very badly in biology last year at AS . She'd been ill for months with Glandular Fever which didn't help, but also she just didn't find biology easy (which was a surprise to her after A* at GCSE) She got an E in her AS levels and in one paper actually failed completely..U. School didn't want to let her continue.

We got her an online tutor who worked via skype and it was fab.. showed her she COULD do it , she had just lost confidence in herself..

Got her A2 results last week and got a B in biology ,with the last paper being an A! (AAB in total and happily off to Nottingham..not medicine tho) so it is perfectly possible to get there. She had BBE at AS having dropped maths because of being so ill. School were prepared to predict her a C in biology.. 2 grades up..

She was very pleased when she got her results and did do a happy dance in the direction of the bio teacher who hadn't wanted her back

Hmm. DS1 is a medic and said there was a fair bit of Maths tuition on the course. This was useful for students who hadn't done A level Maths and Further Maths (although a lot had done these) but generally those who had done A level Maths found that aspect of the course easy. I know the Med schools were keen on Maths A level and counted it as a 3rd science (after Chem and Biol). Your DC will have a banked A grade for History, which looks good. I wouldn't consider graduate Med at this stage, as others have said - your DC should go all out to get the best possible grades. Just make sure the PS is looking great.

Thanks for the posts. The problem with DS is that he likes to sort things out himself rather than ask for help. We had to sit down with him and work out what was going wrong but it was a bit late in the day and so near exams. I think it was a shock for him as he has never had to struggle with anything before. He also spent so much time on the history AS level as he knew he wanted to drop it and needed a grade B but ended up with a very high A grade.

He has decided to continue with the maths and take a gap year if he is not predicted AAA. He is also going to retake the two summer modules and has started going to the library to study for 4 hours a day as he is also working on his UKCAT which is next week. He is going to talk to his teachers when he gets back to school and ask them to test him so they can see the progress he has made with C2 and M1 exams.

His tutor is lovely and says he is a straight A grade student. He understands everything she does and comes back saying she is "amazing". Unfortunately, he can sit in lessons for 4 hours a week and not really understand what is going on. It has not helped that he has had 3 or 4 maths teachers during AS level teaching. He is hoping the teaching will be better in year 13.

Betelguese you are right he is not confident about the history or maths teaching but feels that on balance he can do better in exams than coursework. He has heard horror stories of coursework being moderated downwards and people missing their grade A because of it. He also feels that as long as he works hard he has a good chance of an A in maths (with some retakes) but not happy that A2 history marks are 40% coursework.

I have spoken to him about graduate medicine but he really does not want to do any other degree. He says he is going to work really hard next year to get AAAa and then reapply a couple of times ....

I feel so sorry for teenagers these days as they seem to be doing exams and coursework all the time and then if they want to do medicine or vet med they have to do BMAT and UKCAT on top of volunteering...

As Medusa has said, graduate entry to medicine is every bit as competitive, probably more so.

He might have to apply the following year if he doesn't get AAA prediction but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Tell him to not concentrate on Maths so much that the Chemistry slips. That's the really important one.

Sometimes the grades are distorted a bit depending on which modules they did in Y12 so it might be that the school's prediction and the final outcome is better than you expect at the moment.

He knows what to do:-
work like hell
write a brilliant PS
read prospectuses carefully and choose wisely.

having several teachers is, I believe, a mitigating circumstance that can be mentioned in the reference, although medical schools expect these to have been reported to the examination boards and reflected in the grades already.

Arts subjects are more subjective so there is more potential for variation in the grade. If your son struggles with coursework he is perhaps right to go for maths. I assume he has found the Khan academy, some people find it helpful.

A 2 grade up prediction is not unusual for schools. However the medical schools know that schools tend to over-predict. References are important for medicine and his needs to say that the school believe the exams didn't reflect his ability. It also needs to say why he is suitable for medicine.

It is important that he doesn't put so much emphasis on Maths that his chemistry slips. He needs to choose medical schools carefully as some place much more reliance on GSCE and/or UKCAT than AS grades.

If he is not successful this year he should not give up hope until after results day. There are at least 2 medical schools who have gone back to those they have rejected earlier. There are others who have accepted people whose grades have slipped. However he should have a good gap year planned so that he is ready if he needs to reapply next year.

Betelguese thank you for your lovely post. He is a lovely boy and has only ever wanted to be a doctor. You are right he only needs to retake one chemistry and one or two maths (most likely two). I have emailed the exams officer to tell her what he wants to do. I have also told him that I will support him and back him up if he has any problems with the school regarding retakes. He also has a wonderful tutor that is really supportive.

I'm not hugely experienced, so someone will tell me if this is a poor idea, but what about just leaving the school and doing the A-levels via distance learning with extra tutorial support, while getting relevant voluntary experience in his spare time?

I've done a distance learning A-level. The tutor was very good though massively overloaded, so I got some additional local tutorial support with certain bits that I struggled with. The materials were good though. It was a science A-level and in theory I needed to do the experiments via a school. I took a deep breath and risked just doing the theory of the experiments, though I wasn't doing a degree that would require that experimental experience, so I guess that would be a risk.

Just a thought; you're saying he's finding the teaching less than helpful, why go through it? No doubt he'd miss his friends, but he's going to have to work massively to achieve what he wants, so a rather unsociable year may in fact be ideal

Alternatively, a different school....? Crammer?

Hi Joan he really likes the school and finds the chemistry and biology teaching very good. The history has also been very good but he is not happy to continue with it as does not want to do the coursework. It is the maths teaching that he has a problem with I am not sure why really as he has no problem understanding when taught by a private tutor. Maybe class size or not wanting to ask questions? He has now got a very good online resource that he finds very helpful and is having tuition every week with a wonderful tutor.

The school is very supportive of his application so I'm hoping that there will not be any problems with predictions and retakes.

Similar predicament great GCSE results then AS level got A(biology) and bbb(maths.chem.phsyics) Ukcat 697.5

Not sure which Unis look at UKCAT and will take predicted grades over the actual AS.

Despite having all the prospectuses in the world its hard finding out what they really do look at!

Good luck to anyone else in same situation.

I would also add that many careers, medicine included, are not as rewarding as they appear, and not just from a 'some of your patients will die despite your efforts to save them' point of view, although you cannot know how upsetting this can be until you are in a position of responsibility like that, but also from a mindless burocracy (?spelling) and gross ingratitude of the general public point of view. I dont want to piss on his bonfire and its good he's aiming high, but a healthy dose of reality might 1)help manage his disappointment if he doesnt make it in and 2)make him feel much less alone if he gets there and thinks its horrible, as unfortunately many do

Those were my AS results exactly a year ago!! I also got a C in General Studies

I decided to drop Maths, it was a pretty easy decision because I didn't really enjoy doing it, and I didn't think I would ever get an A at A2

However, I did retake one unit of it. My three exams were a, c and d. I took the 'd' unit, raised it to an a, which leaves me with a B overall now. Will your son have to retake two units or just one to get an A overall?

I retook that because quite a few medical schools have minimum grades for the AS you drop as well as for the three full A levels. Some want another A grade, others wanted a B and a couple wanted a C. Others didn't have any minimum grade. I knew I didn't have a great chance of an offer (no one does really!) so I felt by getting my 4th AS to a B, I would have a greater choice of medical school next time around if it came to that!

However, this admissions round, there were quite a few medical schools i couldn't apply to because of that C. In the end, i applied to 3, none of which had a minimum grade for the AS level

I got an offer, and am currently waiting for confirmation of my place (not happened yet because i needed an OH assessment first). My interview (for the uni i got in to) was offered on the basis of my UKCAT score (697.5) and predicted A2 grades, and the place was offered on the basis of my interview. Nothing else really mattered at all.

So yes, it's very possible to get a place with less than 4 A grades! My two C's did not matter because I had 3 A grade predictions otherwise, and I applied to the right medical schools. i was surprised by how much admissions information i managed to get hold of actually, and I think the very best chance of getting a place comes with doing lots of research and applying very strategically. Too many people apply to places that they don't stand much chance of getting into

I think if your son gets 3 A grade predictions, he stands as good a chance as anyone else of getting an offer, as long as he applies to the right medical school. The A grade at AS history will allow him a larger choice of places to apply to than i had

Good luck :)