fall back for medicine ??

[pipsqueak]

dd in AS year 12 at the moment and thinking of applying to do medicine . she got great GCSEs and is lining up some work experience and volunteering etc but was wondering how to manage the fallback position of not getting in . as i undertand it she can only apply for 4 medicine place leaving one other fallback application or do the medical school applications get considered for other courses too ? so, if she doesnt get offered medicine might that institution offer a less competiitive course but related course -bio science etc instead even though she has not applied for it iykwim? am very confused and would like to help but cant really find the answer anywhere .tia

I think that where she will apply for medicine will not offer a fall-back place.
The fifth place is for putting 'biochemistry','pharmacology and physiology' or chemistry etc

Hi:)

We ( I say we because I suffered every moment with DD1) went through this two years ago!

Yes..it's four apps for medicine and a 'back up' My DD1 didn't actually apply for a back up place because for her it was medicine or nothing but in actual fact one of the Universities that rejected her for medicine, then offered her a place for biomed instead so she ended up with that possibility anyway! (Brighton and Sussex) So they definitely DO offer that in some instances.

I'm sure you are aware how incredibly competitive medicine is.. 60% of applicants don't get any offers.. but that just means you have to be ahead of your game..and she and you.. need to RESEARCH.

For example she will need to sit the UKCAT and/or BMAT entrance exam.. she will be able to register for those (look online) sometime after May.. and sat before the UCAS october deadline. Most universities use the UKCAT some the BMAT. My DD1 didn't apply to any Unis using the BMAT so sat the UKCAT.. it's an exam requiring incredibly quick thinking and processing tick the box style.. and you can get practice books on Amazon... seriously recommend them!

Next.. check out individual Uni requirements.. as well as their A level grades , a lot preselect on GCSES too. Then depending on each Uni's own 'slant' their interviews etc have very different approaches.. my DD went to one which had a very 'science' based interview, another which was heavily ethics based... The Student Room forum has some great info (tho lots of panic and/or snobbery depending when in the year you read!)
Also the style of teaching varies massively.. some are more lecture based, some prefer the 'problem based learning' approach.. DD1 chose the latter, which meant a big shock of independent learning but hands on, as it suits her.

Something else..which we didn't realise at the time, is that if she doesn't get in first time around.. and it's what she REALLY wants to do above anything else.. then she can reapply the following year! My DD1 is now in her 2nd year at Peninsula (which btw is VERY nice and has shot up the league tables if you care about that sort of thing!) and she was very surprised to find that actually going straight from school makes her the baby... many of the students are a couple of years older, because it took them a couple if years to get a place!

Last thought is that if she can get some variety in her work experience that is great (my DD1 worked in local community hospital as a volunteer and also at a special needs camp) and of course a blinder of a personal statement:)

It is a tough course. BUT if she is absolutely passionate about wanting to be a doctor then she won't be satisfied with anything less:):) My DD1 (who is very able..straight A/A*s at A level) has had to work her ass off, a lot is expected of them from day one. But she is loving it...

(phew sorry that was LONG!)

Oh and good luck to your DD :):)

thanks both for the helpful replies . we have the ukcat 600 questions book - must say it looks horrendous but think she will be ok with it . i am planning on booking her onto a weekend course to have some help with these. dd was interested in peninsula as attracted by the PBL approach and also likes the area . the 2 unis are splitting in 2013 so not sure if she would plump for exeter or plymouth . did your dd do 4 a levels ? dd is doing 4 plus crit thnking but is probably going to drop physics to concentrate on getting 3A/ A* which seems to be the minimum requirement .glad to hear your dd enjoying course though . that is heartening ! what a rollercoaster ! studnet room has such a lot of info it is quite hard to filter but will get her to have have another look.

I second everything Medusa has said.

DS1 has secured his first choice offer for Medicine this year but he feels pretty naive/ lucky. He too didn't use a fall back option because for him it was Medicine or bust.

Do tell your DD to take the work experience advice seriously and to take steps to be able to demonstrate team working and empathy to the interview panel.

It's manifestly clear that a straight run of a zillion A*'s won't cut it anywhere (even at the research heavy universities) without the caring qualities too.

It's up to her what to do with the fifth choice really.

Some universities will offer biomedical sciences degrees or similar to some applicants they don't accept (BSMS, Aberdeen spring to mind) but this isn't guaranteed.

If she thinks that even if she gets 4 rejections she'll have a gap year and re-apply then she could leave it blank.

Some people apply to courses such as Clinical Sciences at Bradford as they transfer some of their top students to medicine at Leeds after 1st year. There are a few people playing this game though, and she might think that if she wasn't doing medicine she might fancy somewhere more prestigious (to each their own).

When I filled in my own UCAS form there were 6 choices so I put 4 x medicine 1 x pharmacy and 1 x science course.

Both Pharmacy and Sciences offered me a place despite my personal statement being clearly for medicine - they accept and expect this and don't mind if you're a good applicant. I also found the interview practice really helpful as I got those interviews before my medicine ones.

Hi again:)

The area is lovely. DD1 has been based in Exeter (St Lukes is the campus for medicine) and it's great.. the med students's halls for first year are a stones throw from St Lukes (and very nice) and the town centre is FAB for shops (shame she is a poor student!!)

Yes Peninsula will be independent from next year.. I imagine the same will apply tho.. some will be allocated Plymouth base some Exeter. In the 3rd year there is another option.. Truro. DD1 was originally allocated Plymouth for next year but fancies Truro so has swapped.. (mostly for the surfing and the smaller number of students there; she has also found a lovely house to rent with friends next year) She will be there for two years then Plymouth for yr 5.

The course IS good. She has had real placements from very early on and opportunities for working with patients, doing 'real stuff' very quickly.. and in training scenarios they use actors who throw everything they might meet for real, at them! Next week is 'suicide' week.. they have a week of competencies and their AMK exam.. she has to cannulate someone, take blood, do various physical examinations under tests conditions.. ugh. However at the end of the week I have no doubt she will get hammered with her med friends! They have great social life in between the stresses:)

DD1 did Maths, Chem, Bio and Psychology at AS and then dropped the Psychology for A2 (reluctantly..she loved it) as she was told by all the Universities that 3 A/A* were far preferred.. and she found chemistry pretty tough going so she wanted to focus on getting those grades!

SHe loves it. She was very homesick in her first year which was hard but now she has a great bunch of friends, and has settled into the life there. I just told her on FB that I was posting on here and she says ' tell her to go for it!!' :D

Go for Exeter pipsqueak.

DS1 is doing 4 (Chemistry, Biology, Physics, History) plus General Studies and Critical Thinking and the EP.

FWIW DS1 has 12 A which he sat in Y10 all in one sitting, all linear, plus an A in General Studies A Level from Y 11. And in almost every AS Level and now every A Level module since then he's scored 100%, or almost. He's ridiculous really.

But the other 'soft' stuff is incredibly important too. Less important than the academic stuff, but very important. Had DS not demonstrated that too, even with his nerdy results (though he's not a nerd), he's have got 4 rejections. That's definitely the message issuing from those who know on TSR and MN and it's true.

thanks both . it is good to hear others experience of this process . i thnk she will make a great dr but it is so competitive and she needs to be realistic so it is heartening that there may be other offers made .she would not want to do agap year but would aim for a good science degree and then apply for graduate entry - s till ytill competitive i know but i thnk she will be more confident then .

thanks medusa and yellowtip - great to hear your dds experience at exeter medusa .it sounds fab and we all love that area too . your sons academic achievements yellowtip are most impressive and i am sure you are right the other stuff is important too . has he got a place sorted?

marking place

He has got a place pipsqueak but he might well have missed one had he not got his head around the importance of work experience etc. and the soft skill stuff at the eleventh hour.

Avoid other highly competitive courses as your backup.
For example, some psychology courses will automatically reject applicants who have a personal statement aimed at medicine.

yes Yellowtip has a very good point... it's not all about the grades. It will be given that ANYONE applying for medicine is a straight A/A* student.. so while the kids might be top of the heap in their own schools, in this competition they are all level.

The work experience is CRUCIAL..and it's not so much about how much, but what they can take from it.. DD1 found they wanted to know what she had learned that would affect her as a future doctor... and actually she didn't have to shadow a heart surgeon (not that this was a possibility!) in order to have 'worth' to her W.E.. , she simply had to be able to explain what she ahd learned in terms of communications skills, empathy, the realisation just how knackering her chosen career is.... (she did voluntary in the local hospital and also has a lot of experience as a carer having a disabled brother and is involved in a special needs group) They are after people who have the person skills necessary for a doctor as well as intelligence.

The 'soft skills' are what will actually make a doctor in the end because you really do need to be good with people:)

encourage her to think very hard about what medicine involves and if it is really what what she wants to do. Why does she think long hours, constant exams, masses of paperwork, sometimes working Christmas, being told you can't have time off for a sick child and having to move around the country to qualify are for her? Will it be worth the 100k debt (expect to have to fund 6 years, she may want to do an intercalated degree if not at one of the schools that does 6 years anyway)? Work experience can't really show you what it is like, although it is essential when applying. A long period of working in a nursing home/ with the disabled/ in a hospice will show commitment, stamina and that she has some idea it isn't all about saving lives. There are many other careers for science graduates, some with better pay and allowing more of a social life. If she decides to go ahead having been through that sort of soul searching will help at interview.

Some medical schools will offer an alternative course if you aren't offered medicine, check the student room. One or two may also allow transfers from a biomed course, that is rare. The 4 year graduate medicine is said to be even more competitive so some graduates apply for 5 years courses to increase their chances. You may need a first to get in, I don't know much about graduate medicine. There are medical courses in the EU that some students consider, some are taught in English but you need to learn the lcoal language to speak to patients. I think students loans may not be available for graduate medicine if they've had a loan for a first degree?

It is essential that she doesn't waste an application, she does need to research the schools well. Even good students rarely get 4 offers. You will need to deal with the feelings of rejection and the long wait for interview results, the whole process is very hard on parents as well as student.

Good luck

I think cardiff offer a Pharmacology degree with has a separate path for those wanting to switch to medicine. Sussex also gives their Biomed students the opportunity to switch. Alot of medical applicants on student room were using these as their 5th choice. I was checking up on biomed and pharmacology threads for my son and found quite a few were medical applicants.