2nd year university student really struggling academically - help please!

[lesterlassone]

DD has struggled academically with uni course from day 1 (we're not a "clever" family) but she was just so proud of getting a place at university, adjusting to living independently, finding part-time work etc. However as the end of year 2 approaches in June, she really feels unable to cope with the workload. Simply doesn't "get" all the reading and assignments, despite having extra tuition support. And I'm not much help as I don't even understand the assignment questions! She's not very confident with others in her group, who have all jelled (sp?) and is often on the outside and without a partner for group work. Her housemates are both enjoying their courses and are far more outgoing, although they do try to involve her in social stuff.

Unfortunately DD has no real idea of a career (current course is tourism related, simply because that was what she was best at during high school) and has reached the stage of dreading lectures/assignments - although she does both and just scrapes through/fails.

It's all coming to a head now and I just want to support her as best I can, so the question is - would the 2 years at uni count for anything in terms of a qualification? She's so unhappy and feels the future is bleak.

Any advice would be welcome. DD finds it very hard to talk to tutors/uni staff (even the SU team) and home is just me, without any experience whatsoever of university life :(

Tell her to please go and talk to her supervisor/academic tutor/whatever they have. Does she have any one tutor she particularly trusts or likes that she could talk to?

I promise that it happens all the time, and tutors are really used to having these conversations, and they do want to help - it's awful when it turns out someone's been unhappy for ages and not felt they could ask for help.

Can she not join a group and work together she does not have to read everything !!! If she just scraping through does she have a marking criteria to help her when writing or read other peoples assignments to get aflavour of what entails in getting a good grade her personal tutor should help more

It sounds as though the personal tutor is doing all he/she can, if dd is getting extra tuition, but it's very hard when you don't know a student is unhappy or struggling to give them the support they need.

Thanks for the speedy responses! It's reassuring to hear not that uncommon, but I do fear it may be too late and she will simply not feel able to go back after June, hence the question about the 2 years counting for anything in terms of a qualification like HND (although just looked on university website and they do not offer HND in her subject).

I'll keep on with the moral support and suggestions of further talks with tutor etc and perhaps try to encourage other ways of proceeding - not all the world's great successfuls had a university background after all! If only DD had an idea of what to do ...

imnotmymum - I get what you're suggesting, but sadly part of the problem is the fact she finds it hard to join established groups and has been "left out" enough times for it to be easier just to try and do stuff herself. Despite this rather sad picture I'm painting, she is enjoying her independence!

I'm a 2nd year student and it is a big jump from what was expected in year 1.

In terms of qualifications, technically if you complete year 1 (120 credits) you're entitled to a 'Certificate in Higher Education' - equivalent to HNC - and after 2 years (240 credits) you gain a 'Diploma in Higher Education' - equivalent to HND. Ask the uni if they offer these, they should have the necessary procedures already in place.

Reading widely, re-reading and even more reading is the key to success in the 2nd year I think... asking the tutors on specific areas of understanding and asking for references of useful/supplementary to the course books and journal articles.

Re. groupwork - it can be a real pain! I'm much older than my fellow students so I do all group assignments on my own whenever I can get permission to which is an awful lot easier in so many ways!

If she completes this 2nd year then in lots of ways it would be a shame to give up but if she's really struggling with the work despite trying her hardest then it may be better for her.

Hope it all works out for you both.

Joan, thank you for that perspective. I totally agree with your reading, re-reading and more reading comment BUT when I see DD staring at the text books for hours, trying so hard to understand and fighting back the tears because it's all so "over her head" then I wonder if it's right for her?

If a recognised qualification would still be achievable after 2 years, then I know DD would feel happier and less of a "disappointment" (not to me I hasten to add). It's just that she is the first to attempt further education in her family generation and had such high hopes for a better future.

Unfortunately the university does not appear to offer HNC/HND in her subject, so I'm not sure where to go on that one.

They won't call it the HNC/HND but I'm pretty sure she can apply for/will have gained the necessary credits for the 'Diploma in Higher Education' if she completes the two years. It's a fairly standard 'thing' and definitely a recognised qualification - I've got mine from the OU and my present 'real' university mentions then in the small print of the handbook.

Joan - well thanks again for that piece of information - the university does list some HNC/HNDs but, as I said, not in DD's subject, so it was heartening to hear your view and definitely worth pursuing.

So is this a recognised qualification for any subject after a 2 year study period?

when I studied, if you dropped out after passing yr 1 you got a cert, after passing year 2 you got a diploma (BSc after 3 yrs)

Sounds like she is doing the wrong thing, and went to university to go to university not to do tourism and be a X

can she arrange a few placements over easter and summer to help her decide one way or another?

after I did a placement I found my course really fell into place for me and I had a goal beyond passing the next assignement/exam

Yes, shreddedmum, I agree there was an element of going to university to "have the uni experience". DD is the only one of her family generation to stick in education beyond GCSEs and was thrilled to get A levels, so university seemed a dream after that.

Not having a definite career plan in mind hasn't helped this situation though but a placement actually forms Year 3 of the degree course, so perhaps a year out in the working world will - as you say - make a big difference.

And thanks for clarifying the awards process for 1 and 2 years - at least DD may be able to say she's "achieved" this (again, this is her interpretation not mine as in my eyes she's achieved far more than that to get this far and I will always be proud of her).

University lecturer here, though in a very different (more trad 'academic') kind of subject, so what I'm going to say might be wide of the mark, but: if the final year is placement-based, and what she struggles with is the book-learning, then surely she should hang on in there and give the final year a go? She might find that the workplace environment is more to her taste, that she thrives there, even that it helps her make better sense of what she's studied so far. If it was just going to be more academic work, then dropping out might make sense, but if it's a placement then I really think there's a lot to be said for trying it.

Also, I really think she has to address her difficulties in talking to uni staff. They are just people, and their job is to help her. There is loads of support with study skills on offer at most universities, and most staff IME really want to help struggling students stay the course and get the most out of it. They will be kind and won't judge. Every time she gets an assignment/something to prepare for class, whatever, she needs to ask her tutor to talk her through it. Or perhaps they could assign her a 'study buddy' - a more able student who'd be able to help her figure out what she needs to do?

As a personal tutor, I would be far more exasperated with somebody who failed to take responsibility for their own learning, failed to seek help, and then ran away, than I would with a student who was really making an effort to overcome their difficulties. I am giving up a big chunk of tomorrow afternoon to helping a second year student who, like your daughter, is really struggling to make sense of what is expected of her at university. I am really happy to do that, and I am convinced I can help her turn things round. I am sure there will be someone who can do the same for your daughter, but she has to go out and ask for the help, just as my student did.

I have a uni friend who was the only one from her family to get a place at uni, she dropped out much later than she should have because of (in particular but not exclusively) the massive deal her nan made about her being the first one to go

she should never have even started the course it wasn't even her favorite area in school, just one she did okay in, and I think her family's reaction to the offer of a place made it snowball

its hard, but she's happy now and it wasn't for nothing, she had the uni experience, lived away from home, and made friends like me for life

Oh campergirls, I've read that and now have a huge lump in my throat - you sound a brilliant personal tutor and I'm hoping DD can find someone with a similar attitude at her university.

Her course is year 1 and 2 study, year 3 placement and year 4 back to university. She's currently contacting possible placements for June onwards but has a lot more assignments (and the dreaded exams) to get through before then. In your experience, if she failed the grades for this year 2, could she still do a placement? You see, I really have no experience of further education or how it all works!

Tell her to go and talk to her course Tutor. DD2 is in the final year at uni and was overwhelmed and struggling at the beginning of the year. She spoke to her course tutor. She managed to to sort herself out and get all her work in on time. She has got 2:1's in all get assignments and assessments so far this year.

University lecturer here - you need to get her to go speak to her personal tutor ASAP. I had a student come and see me a few weeks back in tears as she'd not been able to cope. Thing was she should have come to see me earlier - she realized that then as I said she could not switch at this point in time etc. when I asked why she took so long to see someone about it she said that she was trying to cope on her own (when I checked her attendance it turned out that she'd been skipping tutorials as she felt that she couldn't understand what was going on so she thought she'd spend that time 'studying by herself'. I could have screamed when she said that.

Another thing she might want to check out is whether she's got any reading difficulties (dyslexia?) - that might be why she finds it difficult to read/understand? If she's found to have anything like that the uni will give her extra time and support for her learning - and there's no discrimination.

Good luck.

I really appreciate the compliment lesterlassone, but as far as my dept goes, I'm about average! So I would be confident that your dd will find support and encouragement from her tutors. drcrab is right, she needs to talk to tutors asap, and I agree that the dyslexia assessment is a good idea. Just taking action will help her feel better about herself and boost her confidence and that in turn may well help her performance.

I agree too with whoever said upthread that this is typical of yr 2 students - the one who is coming to see me tomorrow is also yr 2: she soldiered on through the first year, always hoping it would get better, and is now really panicking because the problems have actually got worse as the challenge of the 2nd yr hits. This point in the degree does expose people who find it hard. BUT the good students find it hard at this stage too - and EVERYONE does better in their final year (so long as they have decent study skills and make an effort).

I think she probably would have to pass the year to proceed to placement, yes - and she would have to pass to come out with any sort of qualification at this stage. So whatever she thinks she might do after June, it's worth pulling all the stops out at this stage to do all she can to improve her performance.

Again, I appreciate all the words of wisdom. As regards her reading ability, I can confirm that's fine. Never had any problems reading "for pleasure" and she does the course reading and spends a huge amount of time handwriting notes (I've suggested in the past that perhaps less, more succinct notes making would help, but sadly she can't seem to change that pattern). DD then faced with a massive amount of notes which she struggles to make sense of and put into context of the essay.

Lecture attendance has been quite normal I think - some people apparently rarely attend but still manage to produce acceptable work? (I know several have been missed because she was so worried about her lack of understanding - which is how the extra tuition came about in the first place). The trouble is, the extra tuition entails more practice essays, which are a significant problem in the first place! Sort of viscious circle.

I think my aim has to be to help DD gain confidence to speak totally honestly about her difficulties and get over the feeling of failure, not being good enough etc and hope she can scrape through to placement stage. Wish me luck!

I think that many find the difference in mind-set difficult. At school, teachers spoon-feed you and actively help you. At University, it is much more hands-off. One of the things you have to discover is how to go, yourself, and find help. It is not a failure on her part to ask, it is a skill learned.

Also, there is the idea of step-changes. There is a leap from GCSE to A Level. There is not so much a leap from A Level to first-year-Uni; it is a sort of consolidation, making sure that all students are at the same level. Then there is a another leap from first-year-Uni to second-year-Uni. At DD's University the first year doesn't count at all towards the class of degree, it is all on second and third year grades.

So, it will be more difficult this year than last. It's normal.
If she's struggling, she needs to ask for help. It's normal.
I tell DD that it's University's job to let her fail. It's her job to make sure she doesn't. It's the proof of the battling through, the self-determination that makes a degree such a valuable qualification.

Good luck to her.

Sorry to say that I think you are right about the note-taking, her approach sounds massively time-wasting and possibly actively unhelpful. It does sound as if her study skills are not up to scratch, and I am sure there will be support for her to improve them at her uni. But unless she finds out what good study skills are and works at developing them, then just putting in more time will be useless or worse. Likewise with the practice essays: it shouldn't be a vicious circle but exactly what she needs - the only way to improve at essay-writing is to practise it, really. But if she doesn't understand what a good essay looks like and doesn't know how to set about producing one, then it will probably just be make-work.

It all comes back to her need to go to the people who can help her, and ask them for help....

Nail on the head again Campergirls. I just wish I knew how to convince/persuade/bribe(joke) DD to seek further help - and I do realise it has to come from her, not me sounding like a very pushy parent!

show her the thread?

How could I miss the obvious Campergirls - something along the lines of "can't see the wood for the trees" maybe :)

I saw the student I mentioned upthread today, having had a previous session with her on her essay skills last week. She has already had a go at an assignment taking the different approach I recommended, feels she is making progress, and it has immediately boosted her confidence. Taking action can make such a difference!