VETMED and very upset DS - really need advice and perspective from anyone whose been there please??

[BCBG]

DS has just been rejected by Bristol following interview. Was rejected from Cambridge following three weeks in the Winter Pool, and Edinburgh and Nottingham didn't even offer interviews . He is predicted AAAA at A level, has 10 A* GCSEs, and is a Scholar at his school (independent).His BMAT scores were high and much higher than some of the candidates on the Student Room thread that got an offer. His work experience might be a week point as he just scraped six weeks in total. He is fairly understated as a person, and although his school says he interviews really well, he found the first interview at Cambridge really uncomfortable so maybe that was it. What I would really appreciate is a sense of perspective from anyone who has seen this process before, because DS is holed up in his room saying he only wants to be a vet, he will reapply, but he doesn't know what's wrong with him etc. .......and obviously it is a huge blow to his personal confidence when to be honest he has always succeeded before.

Do vet Med candidates who reapply get treated seriously? Is it ever worth reapplying to Cambridge? He holds an offer from Durham for Natural Sciences but he says that is pointless when he wants to be a vet. He is already 18 so if he takes a gap year he would be 20 when he stared at uni .

He is So gutted, and tbh so am I although I am trying to hide it from him and trying to say the right thing. Problem is I can't believe he failed to get an offer either... .

Sorry, just offloading, I guess.

Sympathies OP but he is far from alone. Lots of straight-A medics at our school don't get in first time. One lad got rejected by Cambridge at Christmas in Y13 (not for VetMed, another science-y subject). He went on to get 4 A* in the summer, arranged an impressive gap year and re-applied the next autumn. He got accepted that time.

If you look at postings by University staff here they will always say that they are not interested in 'I have done a,b,c' but 'I have done a,b,c and gained x,y,z from the experience'. This could be really good for him: many G&T children sail through school life and don't hit academic set-backs, so they have no idea how to face up to failure delayed success. This will test his resilience and help him formulate coping strategies. Wouldn't you rather he went through this at home with you, instead of at University on his own?

Thank you all, some really thoughtful and much needed perspective on all this and senua , very good point x

I would encourage him to make contact with the schools he applied to this time and ask for feedback and ask about re-applying - this shows willing and passion. Also the admission deans don't mind receiving questions and it is helpful to be seen as a real person and keep your name on the radar.

20 is definitely not too old - many people take a gap year, apply as graduates etc, and once you're out of school precise age matters less.

And let him know it's not because he's not good enough. It is fiercely competitive and the application process isn't necessarily able to identify precisely out of so many candidates would actually do the best.

Am not VetMed expert although do know some vet students. Have been quite involved with medical applications process though.

Also look at The RVC

Without wanting to out myself, I have professional contacts there.

I mentioned your son's plight to DH last night over dinner. He is a vet, who went to Cambridge and got in first time. He says that everyone who applies has top grades so it is work experience that makes you more attractive to universities. From the age of 15 he helped out at local farms and veterinary practices at every available opportunity. He suggested that your son should approach a local veterinary practice and see if he could work as an unpaid nursing assistant as doing this will give him a real insight into what the job involves. A large part of being a vet involves doing tasks such as dealing with anal glands and clipping claws.

My DS was thinking of applying for vet medicine ... a friend who already had a place said he needed at least 20 weeks of work experience, which should have started in Y11 ...

Definitely work experience is necessary. Although someone I know is studying vetmed in Sydney. NOt sure if that is an option to study out of the country?

If we can help at all let me know, we have sheep but also know dairy, beef, veal, arable etc farmers.

My DD is now on her second attempt at this interminable application process, and she is definitely not in a minority!

I would suggest your son reapplies next year but includes RVC as one option as they set store by the BMAT both for initial filtering and final offers. It also has more places available, and because the BMAT requirement puts a lot of people off it means the ratio of applicants to places is better than somewhere that does not stipulate it. With a good BMAT score your DS would be more or less guaranteed an interview, and if he is sitting it anyway for a reapplication to Cambridge then it makes sense to apply somewhere else that values it.

There's also Bristol, which offered my DD some very good and helpful feedback last year, but the tutor that did this has now left so don't know if that will be the case for this year's applicants. They are considering using BMAT for their next round of applications, presumably to help sort out the inundation of applications they receive each year. Nottingham is possibly the most popular course going, though certainly worth another try with grades obtained rather than predicted. Their policy of not allowing reapplications only applies to people they have already interviewed. After an unsuccessful application last year, my DD has an interview there this week...fingers crossed!

I wouldn't bother with Edinburgh as my DD was rejected from there for the second year running without interview despite 4 A grades (maths and 3 sciences) in the bag this time around. They only seem to interview a relatively small proportion of their applicants and in any case I suspect they are more interested in graduate and international applications (£26,000 a year, anyone? ). However, Glasgow is probably worth a shot as they definitely welcome reapplicants - I know of someone just offered a place there on his third attempt. Incidentally, another 3rd-time applicant was also accepted by Cambridge after two unsuccessful years during which she had not considered Cambridge at all! I think Liverpool is best avoided if the strength of the application rests more on academic achievement than the work experience requirement, though both are important. Liverpool carries out its first filter on on the basis of quantity and variety of work experience and doesn't even look at the personal statement in the initial stages. Many people applying there have absolutely masses of work experience. I have heard that they provide helpful feedback to unsuccesful interviewees, though.

Other options to think about - Dublin is only accessible to UK applicants with four very strong A-levels and your son's grades would definitely put him in the running. Someone else has mentioned Budapest, and I know someone who has recently started at the vet school there though it tends to be those who did not make the grade academically who take that route. However, I've heard the course itself is every bit as stringent as the ones in the UK. There is another English-speaking course in Kosice, Slovakia, and also the course someone else has mentioned at St George's University in the Caribbean. All non-UK courses do of course have significant financial implications, as student loans are only available for courses based in this country.

Don't give up - DD had no interviews at all last year, has had three this year (still waiting to hear from two and one still to attend) and is already determined to try again for a third shot if it doesn't work out. Your son is right to turn down a "second-best" course - how frustrating can it be to find yourself on a biovet course alongside veterinary students, and know that you are paying nine grand a year for the privilege?

Best of luck. Hope he gets there in the end.

A friend of mine told me that most of the people they interview already have degrees. Its nearly impossible to get in without one. She went to uni with me and did a biolodgy degree. Shes going to re apply soon i think.

I mean to say she applied got an interview and was rejected as all the other applicants had degrees. In essense i think that was the reason at least.

Sorry me again - meant to add her grades were pretty much the same as your sons too.

The trouble with going into vet med as a graduate is that you do not get any help with funding and have to pay full fees, far more than £9,000 per year (which are still subsidized by the government!). I think one or two only universities charge the same as undergraduates (I'm thinking RVC and Nottingham, but not sure so don't quote me!) but most of them are in the £20,000 per year league (Edinburgh as I mentioned in my previous post now charges £26,000 per year for graduates/international applicants). Also remember that student loans are not available for a second degree, so this would have to be financed privately - not to mention the burden of the outstanding loan from the first degree. I think postgraduate medics get some kind of help from the NHS - not so vets. A possible route, yes, but also an extremely expensive one and simply not feasible for most people.

If he reapplies to Cambridge it's worth thinking carefully about which Collge to go for. He may be interviewed by different people if he applies to a different college next time. also some (eg Kings) take a big proportion of state school applicants and have a reputation as such, hence it's actually not such a good idea to apply there from a state school if you want good odds of getting in because the ratio of state school applicants to offers is worse. Conversely, people from independent schools are often deterred from applying because of the reputation, and thetrefore the exact opposite is true. I'm not sure if all colleges take vets, it's worth checking.

DH has been a vet for 5 years now but got rejected first time around. He had interviews at cambridge, bristol and london, more than the minimum work experience, predicted As in 4 a-levels, yet still that wasn't enough.

Because it was something he truly wanted to do he decided to take a gap year after achieving his a-levels to reapply and build up his work experience further.

Second time around he had interviews at cambridge, edinburgh and liverpool and got offers from 2 of them. I think by the end of the process his interview technique had certainly improved through experience and learning to relax somewhat, but he also realised you had to try and stand out from the crowd.

For the two interviews that resulted in offers he had prepared in advance a portfolio of all his work experience with a short summary of what he had done and what he felt he had learned during each placement. As for his work experience, during his gap year he spent many weeks regularly working at the same places, e.g. 2 days a wk at a stables, 2 days a wk on a dairy farm.

Being able to show an ability to stick to a task no matter how long or arduous it is is an important characteristic to have. To complete a veterinary degree does not require a genius, but rather someone who can work hard (the entrance requirements are only so high due to the high demand).

If your son truly wants to do this then he should stick at it. I might be wrong but I do suspect some of the universities turn people down first time round just to see what sort of character they have...

You are all so helpful, and I have copied some of your posts to show DS...he heard back from Cambridge today that they interviewed 40 for 4 places, and that he was somewhere between 5th and 8th. His only weak point was ONE maths module (he sat A2 maths a year early) which has pulled his current maths down to a B overall, but the feedback said 'one UMS maths module score appeared a little disappointing but he interviewed well and performed strongly in maths questions on the day'. So near and yet so far . The problem is he has his heart and soul set on Cambridge - not because its Cambridge per se, but because he also wants to carry on choral singing (he sings at a very high standard and was on R4 morning worship today) because he absolutely loves it, but I am scared he will/is going off the boil between now and June. It is hard for them to dig deep when their mates are happy and they are in limbo. I guess this is a real test of character and resilience...

Thanks again for fantastic support: I really appreciate it!

I am a vet who got into the RVC on my second application. When Ientered vet school the age range of first years was 18 to 42 so being 20 will not be a problem.
Over the last few years I have supported a large number of people in their applications. Cambridge aside work experience is of primary importance they are looking variety and quality so actually doing the lambing rather than watching someone else. Secondly interview is tough they are going to ask tough questions they will almost always ask about euthanasia and I don't know anyone who has been successful without being able to cite a real life example. Most will ask about TB they seem to want to know that you don't just get the science, but also the very real emotional cost this is having on affected farms. IMO schools are very poor at prepping for these interviews and you are much more likely to be successful if a vet has helped you prep.
The entry into vet school is really tough last year there were 1.75 applicants for every place and that was a good year. The figures have been as high as 10 for every place. They are looking for resiliance I am certain I got my place due to the fact that working on a farm I broke my leg 7 days prior to interview, had major surgery 6 days prior to interview, was discharged fro hospital 2 days prior to interview and dragged myself on crutches non-weight bearing on my leg 70 miles by train and bus to the interview. No one else who interviewed with me that day got a place. I'm not saying break a leg, but it illustrates how much you need to stand out from the crowd all with their exceptional grades.
If you are looking at vet schools in countries that are not full EU member states you need to consider whether these have RCVS accreditation if they do not it is required to take the RCVS examinations (another set of finals) to work in the UK.
Other universities having amazing choral options, London has the ULU chamber choir founded by a vet 25 years ago.
Apologies for poor typing I'm one handed having had surgery due to an injury sustained whilst delivering a calf by c-section.

Is he thinking of going for a choral scholarship on re-application if he tries Cambridge again? That's another thing where choosing the college carefully could be important, as some of the less obvious ones might be less competitive for choral scholarships.

The Cambridge pool is said to be rather random really, so he could be excellent (as indeed it sounds he is), but miss out on being pulled out of it almost because his application ends up at the bottom of the pile than the top. There's a photo here of the pool in action, and as you can see it's paper based. The article says "Tutors go through bundles of files making lists of candidates they would like to pull out for their college.". It's said that some colleges will never take candidates from the pool for some subjects.

It is so hard to see those we care deeply about so very disappointed . I do hope he finds the inner strength to keep himself going through his exams. No doubt you are a big support to him .

I qualified from Bristol a few years ago, and only got in on my second attempt. I spent my year out doing loads of work experience and evening classes for Biology A level. I definately found that the year out gave me a maturity that helped me deal with the uni stresses that sometimes overwhelmed the straight from school lot.

I'm not in the vet business, but I can't speak highly enough about gap years as long as it's done productively. And you're never too young.....I took mine much older than 20 and it was in between jobs whilst trying to 'find myself'. But I made sure I made the most of it, enjoyed every min of it and it not only gave me a huge range of new skill sets and experiences, but really mentally helped to mature me and re-focus my ambitions. As a result I came back and within a couple of months I found a job with more pay :)

It might seem scary and upsetting now, but soon he will realise things happen for a reason and it may have been the best thing to have happened to him. Stay focused and keep working hard for what you want in life and you will get there.

Wish him lots of luck. He will be fine!
Good luck to you too! Stay strong...you're a brill mum! xxx

I have nothing to add. I know zilch about veterinary medicine or current university applications (my DC are too young) but I just wanted to add that there seems to be some great advice on here. And you sound like a brilliant mother! He is a very lucky lad.

My friend's been rejected for all her choices for Vet med, I think...her stats weren't as good as your son's (I might have been pretty pissed off if people had encouraged me to apply with those grades without telling me how competitive it would be), but she had heaps of work experience and if she'd been given interviews I think she'd have done brilliantly because she's that kind of person. Really tough luck and even more for the people with perfect grades.

quirrelquarrel for your friend....if she's taking A2s this summer maybe they will take her with formal grades? Also we have had such good advice on this thread: it seems they need to accept that loads fail to get in first time, and they need to max the notes on their work experiences! Good luck to your friend if she tries again.

Yes- she's v. determined and I can't think of anyone who'd deserve this kind of chance more....just found out that another friend has four rejections for medicine, and she did have the perfect grades/work experience. It's just crazy.

To answer the OP's question "Do vet Med candidates who reapply get treated seriously?" - well presumably they do as DD has at long last been offered a place at Bristol! Still waiting to hear from Nottingham and RVC, but at least the tactic of waiting a year and applying with grades in hand paid off. (Just wish it didn't have to be this year, what with the increase in fees and all , but this is irrelevant to anyone applying for the first time this year.) I have the distinct impression that this approach is not unusual, either - in the course of her interviews DD met quite a few reapplicants who have fared much better second time around. I'm almost beginning to wonder if the universities do it deliberately, just to see which candidates really are dedicated.

Don't know about Cambridge, Bristol certainly worth a reapplication after asking for feedback on the interview, also Nottingham. Edinburgh have confirmed that they have only 37 places available to English/Welsh/NI students this year, so they clearly are operating a quota system now - worth knowing so that you can weigh up whether or not to go for it or try somewhere different. Still think RVC is definitely worth a try, purely from the numbers perspective (i.e. applicant/place ratio) compared to Edinburgh, for example.

Good luck!