Studying in Germany

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Does anyone have any experience of studying at a German University? I understand that these now accept the IB or A-level degrees and that there are (still?) no tuition fees. DS (whilst still a few years away from Uni) is very interested in science/engineering and some German Uni courses have a very good reputation. I'd be very grateful to hear from anyone whose kids have applied and are studying in Germany.
Regarding language, our ds's German isn't fluent but will hopefully be good enough to cope when he starts.

There are German universities that teach mostly or entirely in English. You may want to enquire. They also have a website daad which may have info on uni and life there.

They also have the differentiation between universitat (university) or the Hochschule (they call it university of the applied sciences) which is possibly similar to a poly. They have their own rankings for Hochschule and universities.

It'll probably do well to enquire about language levels. Just like how we expect our foreign students to be fluent in English (or achieved a certain level of English) they would expect a similar competency in German.

Many thanks drcrab. The DAAD website is very useful. Seems that A-levels are accepted - I wonder what grades are required, or this may depend on the subject. We're working on his German (DS is bilingual in theory, but his written German is nowhere near his spoken German..). Have you had experiences of applying to German Uni from the UK?

Your son could think about doing an Erasmus stint first, before going to university. He'd get a placement as an English language assistant in a school (he'd be earning, and he could save a bit). Meanwhile, his spoken German would inevitably improve; he'd get used to living in Germany, and would feel much more sussed when the time came, than if he'd dived into a German university course straight from the UK.

I'm the Erasmus coordinator for Germany at my uk institution. I work with some German academics and universities.

A levels are recognised by German universities without too much difficulty. If your son is taking maths A level he should be fine - sometimes universities will not admit students for any undergraduate degree without this. For German language taught courses there will be a requirement to meet a certain language standard. Very few engineering bachelor degrees are taught in English at this moment in time but that is changing every year so it is worth keeping an eye out for courses taught in English.

will depend on whether the subject is classified as numerus clausus or not how easy it will be to get in. The A level results will be assessed at what they think the equivalent German grade would be (according to lists they work with). I think they tend toward generosity in this. If his German is not up to scratch, there is the possiblity of doing a one year preparation course at university which a lot of students have to do.

Fees have been introduced and will have to rise in time. Atm they are not going to break the bank IMO. What is very different is that German university courses depend on the student picking and choosing his/her timetable so he would not attend set courses with everyone in his year and sit exams together for instance, the tutor system is not in any way equivalent. There is a lot less guidance and supervision generally which has been one reason why many people drop out without completing their degree. They are pretty much left to sink or swim, although this may all be changing.

They have introduced bachelor courses now, previously you had to be masters level to complete any degree, and are trying to get people to finish their degrees faster. In the past, when the political decision was made to provide wide access to tertiary education, the universities were obliged to open courses to large groups of students. This meant crowded lecture halls, supervision limited to very little indeed and the students were/had to be free to pick and choose courses. This meant often enough that people studied for 6 and more years and/or reached the point where they wanted to sit final exams but found they had not completed all the requisite points. It is all in a state of flux at the moment but I think engineering/science will be generally more hands-on and therefore I'd be more inclined to study something like that in Germany than say philosophy. Go and have a look at a university if he is interested. Some offer summer courses now which is a way of getting to know the set-up and the feel of the town.

DAAD

sorry back again. Just remember Studienkolleg is what the preparation course is called. It is a year long and involves language training and of course he could attend lectures and also do some courses from his degree. If they decide his A level results are not sufficient for the course he wants, it is possible to get accepted for the Studienkolleg and on successful completion, move into the regular degree course the next year. I should think decent A levels and a certificate in German from the Goethe Institut will be fine though

Some very valuable information here.

The level of German needed to study at a German university is not that high. You generally need to pass a test called the DSH which I think is graded around B2 on the European Framework. I have no idea if your DS would technically count as a native speaker if he's sort of bilingual, but you certainly need to find out if sitting that test is a requirement of entry.

There are some Bachelor's courses taught entirely in English and these would tend to be science/engineering rather than humanities, but most English courses are at Master's level.

There's a great deal of snobbery with the old universities on the one hand and the Fachhochschulen on the other, but actually the Fachhochschulen often offer a much better more hands-on degree for science subjects, with compulsory internships in international companies etc. Perhaps I'm biased - DH teaches at a Fachhochschule and I'm on the selection panel for a course at another one. The teaching is far more focused and career-oriented, whereas the traditional unis pride themselves on having no connection to industry.

regarding entry requirements- when I applied for a university place some years ago I had to give my A-level AND o-level certs to an office which converts them into German grades. The O-levels are needed because there's much less specialisation at Abitur level in Germany, so if you take science A-levels your O-level English will count towards the final grade. As an indication I had A, A and B at A-level and C at O-level maths (science dunce) and got awarded a 1.3 grade, with the grades ranging from 1.0 at the top to 6.0 at the bottom (which is a clear fail). A 1.3 is pretty good and you could get onto most courses with that. However it was labelled an 'Abitur for humanities', ie I wouldn't have been allowed to apply for a science degree with that choice of subjects. The other weird aspect is that any time you spend between finishing A-levels and applying for your degree is taken into account - it's called Wartezeit and it raises your grade by a small amount each semester for a maximum for 14 semesters. So your son would have a higher grade if he took a gap year and then applied than if he went straight from school.

Costs - the amounts charged vary from state to state. Here in Berlin there are no actual fees, BUT students have to pay 500 Euros per half year in administrative fees and a compulsory public transport ticket (which is actually great value). Some students are entitled to a loan called BAFöG, but most pay their own way through college by working. Students tend to be older and more mature than in the UK. For the course I select students for, most have some sort of apprenticeship or a few years' working experience before applying.

"This meant often enough that people studied for 6 and more years"
Zzzen - I have several friends who spent 15 to 20 years on their Masters in Germanistik! Both got a kick up the arse from the uni at some point and got forced to finish, and both now teach in Gymnasien! (The refuge of people who never wanted to grow up)

If your DS is very interested in science/engineering, why doesn't he want to do prépa and a grande école d'ingénieurs?

Thank you for your helpful comments, especially ZZZen and Tenebrist.

The reasons I chose to come to Uni in England rather than study in Germany (some 20 years ago...) were to escape the overcrowded lecture halls, the endless semesters as well as (at the time) the free education in England (due to reciprocal EU agreement), as well as to improve my English.

However, with fees having increased in the UK and shorter Bachelor courses now being offered in Germany, we're considering it again, for DS, especially as his interest is very much in the science/engineering which has traditionally been very strong in Germany.

Good to hear that the translation of A-levels/IB grades into Abiturpunkte is quite generous and also that any Wartezeit benefits the marks.

Can you do Erasmus before university?