New uni application process for 2014?

[IdontknowwhyIcare]

Apologies in advance for not googling but I dont really know what I'm lookng for. A teacher at DS (yr 11) school mentioned in passing that the application process for uni starting 2014 is probably changing, as in A level results out in July and then making application based on actual grades. does anyone have any info on this? TIA.

Well there is an article about it here but my impression from this is it probably won't be changing or if it does it will be way off in the future.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15492470

"The earliest proposed date for any significant change to the process would be for applicants entering higher education in 2016." This taken from the UCAS website see here

Thanks. Interesting reading about the different opinions, it will be interesting to see how it pans out eventually. It wont affect DS, I had thought it might as his tutor said 2014.

It's just a consultation paper. will be many years, if at all, beofre it becomes reality. UCAS would need to get the agreement of all the universities and all the exam boards before they could implement!

also UCAS' lead in time for even basic is at two years plus - e.g. the process for applications for 2013 entry has long since been finalised!

There's a consultation paper here They are proposing some interim changes for the 2014 entry, but just minor ones really with the main changes for 2016 at the earliest.

Thanks I will take a look. I'm a bit sad in the fact that I dont like surprises ;-) so even if it doesnt affect DS I would still like to be aware.

The proposal is for a half-arse halfway house scheme to be up and running for 2014 entry.

In theory, post exam results applications would be fine, if schools move exams back about a month, they are marked faster and Unis start a month or so later- this is unlikely to happen before the 2016 entry application cycle.

From 2014 entry cycle, it is proposed that a new system is set up, Apply1 Apply2 and Apply 3. STUDENTS WOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO APPLY TO 2 COURSES, not 5 (or 4 for some courses), as now.

I have read the proposals in detail and see a number of serious, unintended consequences as a result of this proposed reduction to only 2 course choices - the main ones being that it will reduce social mobility, as it will be "too risky" for less well off students to apply to oversubscribed courses at top universities, but the middle classes will be fine (my family included, as we are lucky enough to be able to affore to support our child for several extra years if he needs to re-apply to his desired course/university), but I really feel it will put off a lot of students from applying to universities where they have a small, but real chance of an offer.

If you fail to get an offer from the 2 choices, you can reapply through apply 3, but this will be like clearance now - there will be few, if any places on very popular courses/unis available.

It also causes particular problems for Scottish students wanting to apply to a mix of Scottish and English Universities.

Read about it on the student Room "Ucas and applications" forum, or on UCAS. You have about a week to lodge comments.

the propasal document states that 2014 applicants can make up to 5 choices as currently in APPLY 1 oldmum

Have a look at the explanation on TSR, where they are collecting opinions, it clearly states that applicants will have 2 choices if they use apply1 or Apply 2, but will be able to make further choices in Apply 3 ("clearing").

bit.ly/zPfhFM

www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1887746&highlight=ucas

Mmmm shortened link not working, try this one.

Bugger, this is a live link.

oldmum I've not read all that link, but the title of the thread shows it applies to the 2016 full solution. The bit I referred to about having 5 choices is from p44 of the proposal document and refers to the halfway interim solution from 2014. It says:

"Apply 1
30.9. Apply 1 would be open to applicants from
September for entry the following autumn. An
enhanced Apply process would guide applicants
through an online application, using easilyunderstood
terminology and reducing the risk
of entering incorrect information by validation
of the qualification information entered,
increased use of drop-down menus with
appropriate choices, and mandatory completion
of fields to reduce invalid applications and
follow up by admissions offices. Applicants
could, as now, make up to five choices, with
more than one personal statement if different
course choices are made. They could support
their application with uploaded documentation
such as certificates and passport copies."

The diagram on p45 illustrates the 2014 process quite well - all they've proposed is renaming Apply to apply 1, extra to apply 2 and clearing to apply 3 and tinkered with the details which are mostly improvements as I see it.

I like the idea of being able to do individualised personal statements as it solves the dilemma of how to slant it if applying for different courses and I like the idea of a small gap between results day and clearing (apply 3) so students can gather their thoughts and do some research before clearing starts.

These are just proposals at the moment nothing is changing yet.

Gelatinous, having read the whole report rather than the key points on the TSR thread, I agree that it's 5 choices.... BUT, only for applicants applying in 2014 and 2015 (but the option of holding an insurance choice may be removed)! Then it is as I said - 2 choices (and they are considering only 1 choice!), and you can apply to 1 course at a time if you use Apply 3 (clearing), which is pretty grim.

MuMMEEEE, just proposals yes, but they seem very keep to push them through with haste. I am very concerned about the changes and how it may affect my younger 2 DS.

My older 2 DS applied last UCAS cycle and this current UCAS cycle, and both would have been forced to make very different, and less aspirational choices about which Unis to apply to if they had been using the proposed Apply1/2/3 system.

Yes oldmum, after they change the results timetable (assuming they do) it will reduce to 2 choices at a time in Apply2. I can see why you are concerned by this, and there are definitely some wrinkles to be ironed out in the proposed system for 2016. Some issues I thought of are:

1. Not sure schools could cope with turning out references for everyone in such a short time (about 2 weeks from results to apply deadline and in the middle of the summer!)

2. I like the idea that applying post results means everyone has the min. requirements, but how does this work if you are allowing some contextualisation? Will the stated min. requirements be the same for everyone or will candidates have to guess if more lenient or stricter rules apply according to the type of school they attend.

I think I prefer the middle road they are proposing for 2014 at the moment, but there are a lot of attractions in a post result application system too. I don't think not having an insurance choice is any loss if applying post results, and having the extra time between exams and results to look around and make a considered decision is great.

Ah no, I mean they propose removing the insurance choice from 2014 entry, or letting the unis decide if they individually want to offer insurance places or not.

Obviously once application becomes properly post-result app, 2016 or when ever, there will be no need for anyone to have a insurance choice.

It's not the post-exam result application that bothers me, thats a good idea, it's the reduction to 2 course choices. for students applying to very over subscribed courses or universities, that's just not enough. For these courses/universities, there will be no places available in apply3, just as there are none in Clearing now. Already in very oversubscribed courses it not unusual to apply 2 or 3 years in a row to get a place.

Going down to 2 choices would adversely affect less well off students more, as they may not be able to afford a couple of gap years. I think they would play safe with their choice of university and course even if they had the grades to reach for the stars.

I can see that having to hold insurance places for students is a pain for universities and that it delays them knowing how many places to offer in clearing and adds considerably to their uncertainty in how many places to offer. The document does imply they're not really decided what to do about insurance places in the interim plan, but I think they probably do still need it or something similar.

The idea of 2 choices for the eventual plan is to allow one aspirational & one more realistic application, which seems fair enough, but does become problematic for popular courses. They don't seem certain themselves that 2 is the right number, so if you think it isn't enough (and I think 3 or 4 would be better from the candidates point of view, but harder to process quickly for the universities) then respond saying so. If enough people do they will revise it I think.

I was thinking about medicine in the longer term plan. At the moment candidates have 4 choices, so with the new system, assuming the same number of applicants (and it may be less as some won't make the grades) are applying for half as many choices, so the universities will (on average) have half as many applicants per place so the probability of them giving a place doubles. So from the candidates point of view the chance of getting a place from 2 choices is on average the same as the chance their predecessors had of getting a place from 4 choices. Of course it is affected by how ambitious they are with their choices, and I do take the point that some students can afford to be more ambitious than others, but for something like medicine it always has been a bit of a lottery.

Oh yes, I've already registered my complaints about the potential unintended effects of the apply123 system, particularly wrt how a 2choice option may decrease, rather than increase social mobility and reduce the ambition, particulaly amongst less well off students, to apply to the best possible course or university.

There are also particular issues for Scottish students applying to a mix of Scottish and English universities which I have also raised with them.

The trouble is, not many parents and future students are very aware of these proposals, and most who are aware will simply read the Ucas publicity guff without thinking exactly how it will affect thier particular circemstances.
I suspect it will all get pushed though and then after a few years they will realise the problems that they have caused..... Leaving kids like my ds3 applying through a broken system.

Ds1 would not have applied to Oxford under the proposed scheme, it would have been far to much of a risk. He would have applied to scottish universities only. He's now at oxford.

Ds2 is applying in the current Ucas cycle. Again, under the proposed 2choice system, he would have dropped the idea of applying to the 'best' uni for his course/grades, Edinburgh, and gone for 2 middle ranking unis.

I feel that parents need to be aware that apply3, which is clearing with a new name, just like now, won't have places available for popular courses and top universities....... So many applicants really will be restricted to 2 courses choices per application cycle, and that, although of course universities will, overall have half the number of applications to deal with, it is still going to reduce the statistical chance of gaining a place on very oversubscribed courses........ Its a practical exersise in Game Theory.

Frankly given the state of the current system I am not sure the stakeholders involved could cope with what is invovled with the proposed system. Setting aside schools needing to produce relevant references and the appropriate university academic staff being available to sift applications and conduct interviews. I think a major stumbling block will be studentfinanceengland - not the easy organisation to deal with for both students and parents alike. It will be interesting if they can cope with the demands of all students applying for loans and needing payment in a short space of time. The second issue will be the need to sort out accommodation.

As for students making more than one personal statement that will be a nightmare. It is hard enough getting one good statement out of some students let alone two.

good points HAPPILYCONFUSED, no experience of studentfinanceengland, but the Scottish equivalent has had successive problems the past 2 or 3 years causing problems for thousands and that's computer system related I think.

I think only a minority of students will be needing to do 2 PS, and I suppose the "bones" of each PS would have the same facts and interests, but would be slanted in a different way to suit the 2 courses better, but yes, more work to be done/checked/approved.