Hoping to retrain as a Doctor, any advice appreciated

[bluefootedpenguin]

Hi. I am currently a Secondary School Teacher, I have been a Head of Department and my career has been progressing well but I have felt for some time now that I am always going to desperately regret not going into Medicine.

This has been something that I have thought about constantly for the last 10 years, and I should have done it much earler. I have probably made it as difficult as possible by having two small children,a Husband and financial commitments.

DH is fully supporting my decision and Financially we will cope, just.

My biggest concern is my Children. I am hoping to get onto the 2013 graduate entry 4 year course. I know the competition is huge, but I am determined that I must atleast have tried to do this and I am studying hard for the GAMSAT.

If successful, my children will be preschool and Y1. I understand that the course itself is quite 9-5, which I can work around, but I am concerned as to the level of personal study I would be required to do to support my learning. While it is really my dream to become a Doctor, I do not want it to be at the detriment of my Children. If I can manage 2-3 hours personal study a night, would I be able to have some weekend time with my kids?

Has anyone any personal experience of getting on the course and training with small children? Is it at all realistic?

Any thoughts/insights/advice greatly appreciated

Thanks funny, I did complain to Hr who were most unhelpful and now have the BMA involved to try and get clarification of my rights. I had previously had 2 days carers leave when my son had an earlier emergency hospital admission. You are only allowed 3 per year. I work 50% so had taken my quota for the year already. However, they did end up covering with a locum as I was clearly in no fit state to work. Doesn't change what was said to me though or the total lack of compassion. To this day my boss has never asked what is wrong with my son or how he or I are (multiple subsequent admissions that I have somehow managed not to take any time off for.)
Didn't mean to drip feed just giving the whole story.
Sorry for hijack op.

knackeredmother my wise advice (apart from making sure of your rights and never leaving your blue DC in the ambulance alone) is
-to befriend your immediate superior
-and peers
-and ask him/her/them to cover for you when needed and do favours in return
-and always have some annual leave in hand for emergencies
-and take turns with DH for emergencies
-always relax at weekends and don't do too many extra currics with dc. just play and have fun.
-black spot the trust on those websites which ask junior docs to rate the trust
-dont ask the person involved for a reference.

I once many years ago covered for a colleague in a sticky spot- that colleague years later became my CEO!

So if you can, do cover for colleagues when they need it and you will be less likely to be left high and dry yourself

OP - DP graduated from a GEP programme last year. The studying was fine really, all 9-5 days, he did a bit of work in the evenings/weekends but only around exam time did it make any difference to family time. The fact he had a small child (DD was born in his first year) was always taken into account for his placements & he never had to travel that far.

Money - you only pay fees for the first year & after that the NHS pays. There are income assessed bursaries for those with children. We actually lived on the Bursary income, but we weren't paying rent out of it & things were tight! You can get support for childcare.

However FY hours are not family friendly. DP is on day 8 of a 9 day stretch, 4 days of which were on call 12.5 hr days. On those days he doesn't see the children. Most days he gets home for bathtime if he's lucky, he's under supported & very stressed on this rotation, & is already talking about doing specialist training part time. He earns half of his starting salary in the city. He works two weekends a month on average.

On the other hand my dad is a senior consultant & has a lovely time of it he does on calls once a month from home...

Funny, that is wise advice and I am grateful to you for sharing it.
The problem comes that annual leave (although I do save it for emegencies) can not be used for out of hours commitments (I.e nights). Also as juniors rotate every 4 months it is difficult to get to know ones colleagues who are constantly changing, particularly at the beginning of a placement.
Things will certaintly improve when I am in one place for a
length of time.
Good tip about the reference ( you aren't my boss are you?!)

Oh - foundation placements. You can apply for special circumstances, & with your children in school you will definitely get them. The assumption is then that you want to stay where you have trained but DP got special circs to move deaneries because of family support where we were moving to. & the eldest person on his course was 48.

Oh, & it is possible to do your FY part time.

Some other things to bear in mind:
There's no guarantee of getting a specialty training post, or a consultant post in the same area though...and moving is harder the older your children get...
Consultants on nights are happening now in my specialty and lots of others...
As a part time trainee on 0.6, it will take you at least 18 years to get to a consultant post...(5yr med school full time, F1 and F2 part time, 6 year ST post part time - lots are longer than this). That's assuming no time in non training posts and that you get every job you want, and that you pass all of your exams first time. The pass rate for the fellowship (exit) exam in my own specialty was around 37% in the last sitting.

I'm not saying don't do it - but do it with your eyes wide open. I think a lot of doctors probably wish they had known more when they applied. I certainly do - I'd not have picked medicine.

rillablythe consultants doing on call at home or whilst playing golf went out with the ark and rarely happens except, perhaps, for dermatology. ( Oh, and some GPs who source the on call out to foreign slavery consortia, but even they work very long surgery hours to make up for that)

knackeredmother No! I'm the type that runs anxiously after the pregnant juniors asking them to put their feet up.

funny interesting. I can assure you that my dad does do his on calls from home, so it must differ by area. He's a consultant psychiatrist.

Hi bluefootedpenguin

Very interesting views about embarking on a medical career- I am only just starting out as a doctor but I was a graduate student and am 34.
From what I've seen so far I truly agree with the other doctors posting on here...I know already that hospital medicine is not for me, GP represents the best possibility to have some 'work-life balance' whatever that is

ok let's say you do become a medical student- don't worry too much about being sent miles from home, at medical school all the parents were given 'special circumstances' and were allocated to placements at nearby hospitals, for the duration of clinical training.

Also, the med school seemed v helpful in terms of taking time out etc. To put it bluntly, as a student you can just walk out of the hospital if there is a crisis at home, if you or the children are unwell you can just stay at home, you do have lots of free time in reality.

However, as a doctor this is just not possible...you will be on the rota, have to do late finishes, work wk ends, plus things always seem to go tits up at 5pm when you are planning your escape out the door!

I would add- don't panic about founDation placement jobs (FY1 &FY2)- if you have children you will be automatically allocated to your first choice foundation school, which is a huge bonus, then it will vary but most will take into account where you can realistically travel to.

A good friend of mine at med school got allocated Scotland when she was settled in London with her husband and TTC...her transfer request got turned down so they are living apart for 2 years, she is nearly 37 and they are about to start IVF, she is utterly devestated that her career has started out like this, resentment has set in esp considering that she may not be able to jhave children.

In a sense, you are in a good position that you have your children already rather than having to take time out for mat leave etc. However, the above posts clearly spell out that it's not all plain sailing once you have qualified.

Good luck in your decision making. For me personally, I love my job and am so glad I went for it...however, I'm starting to panic about when I will have kids, I am fully prepared to be a pregnant junior do ctor but god knows how we will manage childcare, finances etc. :(

Sorry for the very long post! hope some of this helps :)

Re: childcare: I have often thought that grandparents are the unsung heros and heroines of the nhs, because so often they are the ones left taking care of doctors' children, out of hours and unpaid.
I sometimes wonder what will happen to the next generation of doctors who have their babies in about 10 years time as the grandparents might be too old to be of as much help.