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Higher education

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Original poster

DD decided she wants to be a psychiatrist

29 replies

wangle99 · 09/01/2012 22:33

DD is currently in year 10 and has decided she'd like to be a psychiatrist. We've looked at how it all works grades etc and she's really excited.

However, all I read is how incredibly hard it is to get into med school and how many 1000s of people apply for a few places. Is it really that hard?

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 09/01/2012 22:41

Yes, it's incredibly difficult. Far more train as psychologists and it's a much broader field and you don't need a medical degree first.

Even with 4 a stars At A level and brilliant references and amazing work experience she would still be pretty lucky to train as a medical doctor.

LaurieFairyCake · 09/01/2012 22:42

Is she in a state school? She would have more chance then.

catsareevil · 09/01/2012 22:49

Entry to medical school is very difficult, but obviously some people manage it. I dont think that I agree that a state school makes it easier. Everything else being equal you are probably better to have been to a state school than a private one, but the reason that most people opt for a private school is that they think it is better for their child than the state equivalent.

I would be very cautions about choosing psychology in favour of psychiatry.
There is a major difficulty in getting into medical school, but once that is achieved then psychiatry is a relatively easy specialty to get into.

In contrast it is more achievable to get into psychology at university but there are huge bottlenecks in terms of getting assistant posts and getting onto the clinical training that can leave the person spending years and years trying to get somewhere in psychology and still not really being any further forward.

Original poster
wangle99 · 10/01/2012 06:59

She is in An independent school - what is the relevance of this?

Doesn't look good then really! She is predicted As in relevant subjects as gcse and is going to do the IB rather than a-levels. Better get a plan B or hope she changes her mind.

OP posts:
SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan · 10/01/2012 07:05

if it is what she really, really wants then no don't switch her mind or plans. if she didn't get in the first year she applied she could get amazing work experience and try again for the next year for example. i think it's a shame to discourage dreams at this point. she may change her mind anyway as it's a long way off if she doesn't and she really doesn't make it that will be the time to make other decisions.

for example if she just academically wasn't able to make it in then there is psychiatric nursing as yet another option.

let her go for it though.

SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan · 10/01/2012 07:06

i'm a bit shocked it's that hard to get a place on a medicine degree given we have a shortage of doctors?!

notevenamousie · 10/01/2012 07:08

In addition to your plan B (I'm a doctor and done some interviewing and admissions type stuff in the past)... the different medical schools are very very different and some look for sheer academic excellence and some look for a rounded committed person who is also quite bright.
I would be advising work experience and voluntary work. Not necessarily in a hospital. If she's interested in psychiatry, (shudders, rather her than me!!) then think about nursing homes especially EMI (for elderly people with dementia), homeless projects, she would probably have to be 16 to go into a psychiatric unit but definitely look into it, maybe with OT or something where the patients are relatively well, playschemes for children with special needs, etc. If she shows she can really cope with people who, lets face it, remain on the margins of society, now in her teens... there are some medical schools who will see that as a huge asset to the profession.

And plan B could be a medical sciences degree and then graduate entry or even psychiatric nursing.

Original poster
wangle99 · 10/01/2012 07:13

Thank you really appreciate your advice. We have looked at different medical schools I was amazed at the different requirements some request all a* and the one we were looking at said 7 gcse at grade C! I realise work experience will be important and as soon as she is old enough will arrange something relevant.

I really don't want to put her off but dont want it to be inobtainable!

OP posts:
catsareevil · 10/01/2012 17:52

It isnt unobtainable, but she would need to be dedicated. There are various web forums (eg The student room) where people seeking entry to medical school post about their efforts and experiences.
She will need good grades and some form of relevent work experience or voluntary work.

The relevence of the independent school is that some unis do give some preference to results from state schools, or if the student has performed significantly better than the average for their school. It isnt a major thing though, not all unis take it into account at all. Also there are benefits to being at an independent school (provided it is a good school, but presumably you wouldnt have selected it if it wasnt), in terms of exam results and opportunity.

In terms of relevent work experience she doesnt need to focus especially on psychiatry (and that is an area where it would be harder to get experience in anyway due to the nature of psychiatric work). She would be first and foremost applying to become a doctor, though I dont thing that having a particular career plan, and having well founded reasons for it would do her any harm. She should aim to have some 'medical' type experience, but as has been said that doesnt have to be in a hospital, a part time job working as a member of care staff in a nursing home for example would be viewed positively. In general voluntary work that involved working with people is also good.

maddiemostmerry · 12/01/2012 19:28

Hi wangle, my ds in year 11 is also hoping to be a psychiatrist. He is currently doing voluntary work with SN children.

I know how you feel, he really wants it but I look at the competition for the med school places and worry.

mumof3teens · 12/01/2012 19:30

My DS1 is currently an F1 and is pretty sure he wants to specialise in psychiatry. He has has as much work experience as possible and worked in a nursing home every weekend from 16 - 18 whilst in 6th form (which helped with applications to med school) then for the first 3 years of Med school in the holidays. He was always interested in becoming a Dr and started being interested in Psych from approx 13-14. He is on a psych placement now and absolutely loves it. He did his 2 month elective abroad studying psychiatry. He told me it is getting much more competitive now to specialise in psych, as many more applicants interested. I think it would be useful for her to look at the guidance on some med school sites re personal statements (manc used to have some useful advice) this will show her what she should be looking at ie evidence of team working, evidence of leadership etc. V competitive but she shouldn't be put off by that.

Original poster
wangle99 · 12/01/2012 22:22

Thank you do much for all your help it really has been useful. We think DD has got a work experience placement next month at a special needs school.

We have just found out that our local college had started a med academy to help students apply for med school. Dd would be able to do this along with the IB :0) it is in conjunction with the med school she hopes to apply to. She is feeling really happy with her 'plan' and has knuckled down at school - long may it continue!!!

OP posts:
catsareevil · 12/01/2012 22:30

Has your daughter seen this page?

oldmum42 · 14/01/2012 16:36

SANTAISANANAGRAM, The Gov very tightly controls the no of medical students, and has recently cut that number - not because we need fewer Doctors, but because they are VERY expensive to train and it's cheaper to "steal" Doctors from other countries. This cynical ploy (been going on for decades, but worse now) has a very real effect on developing countries ability to retain the medical staff they have trained and so desperately need.

My DS1 is a 1st year Medic, and yes, it is incredibly difficult to get in to Med school now. Currently, around 60% of Med applicants receive no offers at all (out of their 4 choices allowed), despite having the required grades/work experience etc. There are fewer places, and more people applying.

The OP DD shouldn't be put off applying, but needs to be aware that she has to do everything she can to make her application as strong as possible. WANGLE, the med academy sounds good, shows commitment and work experience is a real hurdle to many so the Special Needs School placement would be valuable CV building stuff.

Yellowstone · 14/01/2012 17:55

Laurie it's obviously very competitive to get into med school but I'd have thought any applicant with 4 A* at A Level and brilliant refs and amazing work experience would be well on their way to getting in and pretty unlucky not to get in.

DottyDot · 14/01/2012 17:57

well of all the specialties to be a doctor in, psychiatry or being a GP are the ones to go for - the best chance of getting into higher training - but yes, she's got to get into med school first. But definitely once she's there, encourage her to go with psychiatry or General Practice, rather than surgery - definitely the way to go!

maddiemostmerry · 14/01/2012 18:14

Can I ask what fall back your children would have gone for if they hadn't/don't get med school?

We have a sixth form open eve coming up and will be able to discuss it then I guess. I feel like the voice of doom for my poor ds, but a 60% rejection rate is pretty high!

mollymole · 14/01/2012 18:19

is the IB really the best option for medicine, I was under the impression that you really needed a minimum of Chemistry and Biology plus 2 other high value A levels. usually at A* for medicine

kittyfishersknickers · 14/01/2012 18:22

Yes it is competitive - but then so it practically anything worth doing. When I was younger and thinking about careers, I got really fed up with people constantly saying 'It's so competitive' etc. I think it can be quite offputting, especially to girls, and make them feel like they shouldn't bother.

Not saying you shouldn't be realistic about it, but you shouldn't overemphasize this aspect of it.

For now, she should just concentrate on getting the best grades she can and getting work experience (which is crucial).

oldmum42 · 14/01/2012 20:19

Maddie- the fallback is apply again next year with a stronger cv and exams grades already achieved. I would strongly advise against putting a 5, non medic choice down on the Ucas form, as you dc would face even tougher competition as a graduate applicant, and most unis will not even consider applications from people who have not completed their degree, so you can't just reapply every year while doing the degree.

Kitty, most medical students are now female so the tough comp is not putting too many of them off applying!

MedusaIsHavingABadHairDay · 14/01/2012 20:32

my DD1 is now in her second year at Med school. It was tough, and terrifying, watching her apply with so much competition but she got there, and while she is bright (obviously) she isn't the most brilliant student I know.. but she is passionate and dedicated and knew from a very early age that this was what she wanted..and I think it showed in her interviews.

Her work experience wasn't that amazing either.. I think sometimes students think it's all about how much they can cram in W.E wise, whereas she found what they really wanted to know was what she had learned from it, and how it would affect her attitude as a doctor. She did voluntary stuff at a local hospital but also has several years helping with disabled children (and a disabled brother) and could talk about her understanding of the impact on not just individuals but the family.

Different med schools have very different criteria too. Not academically..they all pretty much want straight A/A* at A level, but in what they want to see from their candidates. My DD1 chose a med school which had a very heavy emphasis on ethical questions at interview and a problem based learning style of teaching .. some are more lecture based, some a mix. I recommend LOTS of research into the diff med schools before applying:)

BUT..there is no reason why your daughter can't be one of the 40% who does get an offer... she should go for it if she has the ability, the determination and the passion for it!

DD1 had no back up plan either...she just wasn't interested in anything else! The morning of her A level results, I was physically sick with terror...Grin

maddiemostmerry · 14/01/2012 22:20

Thanks oldmum, i guess I should just let him go for it.

Medusa that's interesting. My ds has disabled siblings too and has grown up able to see how the system works, or rather doesn't work and the impact on the family.
I know we need to look at as many med schools as possible as I have heard they vary wildly.

maddiemostmerry · 14/01/2012 22:21

PS sorry for hijack Wangle. Good luck to your daughter.

pharmgirl · 15/01/2012 18:51

Watching my ds trying to get into med school was one of the most stressful experiences of my life! He made it, but by the skin of his teeth. If i could give you're dd only one piece of advice, it would be to concentrate on CHEMISTRY. All med schhols want this, without exception, and a B grade will not do. Good luck.

MedusaIsHavingABadHairDay · 15/01/2012 19:16

Yes... I second pharmgirl.. chemistry is vital, has to be an A and it is a bitch!
My DD1 did chem, bio and maths at A2, she loved bio and found it easy, but had to work her ass off at chemistry and the final stages of maths. Core 4 maths had her in tears after the exam.. hadn't seen her cry since she was 6 years old! (still got an A but was convinced she hadn't) A friend of mine's DD sensibly took a non science to A2 as a bit of light relief..she did French instead of bio and got two offers so it doesn't have to be all sciences either...