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Original poster

Latin/ Classics people need your help again...fuming!!

30 replies

Bossybritches22 · 29/11/2011 19:55

Ok you lovely people helped me enormously recently regarding my "geeky" DD1 & her aim to get into Cambridge, she has now set her heart on doing Classics, so we're rethinking (she is I mean) her A-level choices.

Since she did well in Latin GCSE (A*) & enjoyed it, unfortunately her school doesn't do it to A-level, nor do any in our area. SO we're going down the private tuition route in order to give her a head start.Today I finally tracked down her Latin teacher who calmly informed me she'd have to do futher studies first as the exam she took was in fact NOT a GCSE but a Level 2 in Latin. I remember getting a letter saying they were changing exam boards to make it easier for the girls as I remember wondering if they were dumbing it down. However I'm POSITIVE level-2 was never mentioned as they went to great lengths to assure us it was a recognised exam at Uni level Hmm

I'm getting DD to ask her classmates that did Latin if they are aware of this as I'm fuming, & feeling a bit of a fool. Nothing wrong with a Level 2 if that's what you're going for but this was a GCSE subject at the start. DD1 remarked that they all thought the exam seemed rather easy & they were all finished about 30 minutes before the end. On checking the small print on her results letter yes sure enough it says L2-I feel such an eejit as of course in the excitement of all the other results we both just looked at the right hand column where the grades were. It doesn't even have any UCAS points attached!! Angry

Not sure where to go from here but I feel a letter coming on.....what d'you think?

OP posts:
cricketballs · 29/11/2011 20:31

Level 2 is the same level as a GCSE A*-C; what is the exact wording on the certificate, i.e. exam board etc

Original poster
Bossybritches22 · 29/11/2011 21:15

BOARD= WJEC/GCSE

LEVEL= L1/L2/B Cambridge Latin Course.

I thought a GCSE was a level 3? Oh OK apparently not Blush just found a table & checked.

Ok so why did the teacher say she would have to do extra studies to make it a GCSE??? Silly woman she put the wind right up me, she really was saying it was not a full course & that DD1 would need to do extra work before attempting A-level.

Might all seem obvious to others but it's all so complicated for this higerant mother!!

No wonder state school kids don't often get to do Classics, nothing is done to support them!

Thanks cricketballs.

OP posts:
notnowImreading · 29/11/2011 21:41

The WJEC certificate was invented to go with the Cambridge Latin Course by the Cambridge Schools Classics Project, affiliated to - you guessed it - Cambridge University. So they would be absolute bastards to hold it against her.
She shouldn't have too much trouble to pull herself up to a-level over the two years, especially if she's as determined as it sounds.

notnowImreading · 29/11/2011 21:44

PS, I was a state school girl and got into Oxford to read classics with just GCSE Greek and no Latin (not sure if I'd have got into Cambridge, but think they've become more inclusive now). It can be done! It's a wonderful, wonderful course - don't let her give up hope.

jetgirl · 29/11/2011 21:48

I have taught the Level 2.

First of all, did your daughter do one certificate or two? There are two certificates available, one in Language and further language OR Language and Civilisation and one in Latin Literature. If she did the Language and Civilisation option she would have done language and grammar up to the end of Book 3 of CLC, but if she did Language and Further Language that would take her to the end of Book 5 of CLC. If she did the Literature as well this would have gained her 2 certificates. I have taught both Language and Literature as I think it's a waste of time to learn Latin then not read the texts.

jetgirl · 29/11/2011 21:50

cricketballs - yes, Level 2 is the same as GCSE, but Michael Gove doesn't realise this hence why the Level 2 Latin isn't in the EBac but GCSE is. Michael Gove is an idiot, though that's for another thread!

Original poster
Bossybritches22 · 29/11/2011 22:45

OK thanks all, as ever.

notnow do you think she should just go straight into doing the A-level course (found an OCR spec) with her tutor & not bother doing the rest of the CLC books?

jetgirl her teacher said they'd done books 1-3, her results say Latin Lang& R. Lang/Rom and Latin language level 2 Agree about not reading the texts.

Just a bit p'd off that she attends a state school but we're having to pay for extra tuition to keep her skills up. She can do the 4 year course which she is happy to do but it seems silly to let the Latin go, & Greek will be hard enough without learning Latin again too.

OP posts:
cricketballs · 30/11/2011 07:23

jetgirl - never heard such a truer statement Grin

cricketballs · 30/11/2011 07:42

and don't get me started on the Ebac.....

roisin · 30/11/2011 08:23

Has she been on a Latin summer school? These might be of interest.

cricketballs · 30/11/2011 08:49

whilst I understand that you are p'd off with having to pay for an extra tutor; you should be glad that at least she was able to complete the level 2 course whilst attending a state school; the only school in my area that offers Latin is private

Original poster
Bossybritches22 · 30/11/2011 09:14

roisin yes we are looking at those & she is also applying to one at Eton that was suggested, specifically to help State school pupils.

cricketballs Oh yes I agree we are lucky, this next year aren't even doing that, I do appreciate it is a very specialist subject, and with funding the way it is they can't justify running a course. Shame as it's a grammar school & we have several good ones in the county, you'd think between them they could run one course, but it's obviously not a popular subject.

hey -ho good job I've picked up a fourth part-time job!

OP posts:
jetgirl · 30/11/2011 09:43

I would say she needs to do books 4 and 5 before tackling A/S as there is an awful lot of grammar in there. I taught books 3-5 in a year to my private pupil whom I see for one hour a week.

Wrt your original question, I think you should clarify with the school exactly what your daughter signed up for initially. If it was the GCSE, you have every right to expect that that was the qualification your dd would achieve. I have always been very upfront about exactly what I offer my pupils. Because of the EBac I have to switch back to the GCSE and I am not happy about it, the Level 2 is a better course, imo.

Penthesileia · 30/11/2011 09:49

Presumably you know about the four year course in Classics at Cambridge.

Penthesileia · 30/11/2011 09:52

I am very busy this week, but I know a lot about the four-year degree at Cambridge (though not as a student) so if you have specific questions, etc., please PM me, and I'll try to help you at the weekend. Don't want to do it on the general boards as it might out me!

Original poster
Bossybritches22 · 30/11/2011 13:31

Jetgirl Do you mean the Cambridge course is better? Which is why they swapped I think, it was considered a better course in terms of what was covered. I'll see if we can find books 4&5 could you send me the full title?

Penthesileia How kind, thank you I will PM you. Yes she is aware of the 4 year course, we were just trying to keep her hand in,as it were, as she enjoyed doing Latin before & to show willing for the interview.

Now I realise what she has NOT covered I think maybe we could just look at improving her level-2 knowledge to bring her up to speed & then possibly AS level but only do the AS2 if she & her tutor feel she is ready. I want her to enjoy it!

Lots of food for thought, thanks so much.

OP posts:
Moominmammacat · 30/11/2011 16:21

I think Level 2 is just Level 2 ... my DS has been told to do Level 4 and then the WJEC GCSE. Doing Cambridge Latin on line, distance learning with tutor. School told us Level 2 is a very long way off GCSE ...

jetgirl · 30/11/2011 19:17

Bossybritches - in terms of language the WJEc C and OCR courses are equal. In terms of literature, the WJEC options are just far more engaging, and there is the added bonus of all the lit resources being made available for free download. To teach the OCR course I have to buy textbooks at £11 each, teacher's handbook is £28. To reassure you about the fact that universities will recognise it, the leading Classics departments wrote a letter supporting it and recognising it, I think it's on the WJEC website. Will check for you.

Moominmammacat - GCSEs are actually just one sort of Level 2 qualification. Level 4 is not equivalent to GCSE.

jetgirl · 30/11/2011 19:19

Come to think of it, moomin, are you confusing level 4 with CLC book 4?

notnowImreading · 30/11/2011 21:09

I would say that she needs to work through at least book 4 of the CLC before getting on with AS level. If she wants to move faster with the language, she could always get the JACT Reading Latin books, which are expensive new but cheap on Amazon and tackle grammar points in a different order from the CLC books. There is a downside as they print all letter v as u, so can be a bit confusing, but I found them logical and they helped me catch up my language learning quickly. They might be a bit dry for her after Super-Quintus and friends though.

The JACT summer schools are bizarrely good fun, although geeky as all get out.

sashh · 01/12/2011 05:51

Moomin - Level 4 is year one at uni level, you would not do that before GCSE.

www.courtauld.ac.uk/degreeprogrammes/documents/NQF.pdf

To the OP - ask your LEA about funding for your daughter - it's not her fault no where near does A Level Latin, they will probably say no, but you are no worse off. At the very least they may allow her to take the exam at her usual college/VI form.

Many students pick a language for A Level that they have not done before, the tutor should know that. She can take GCSE part way through the A Level course if she wants but does not need to.

funnyperson · 01/12/2011 07:24

It all seems very complicated.

When my dd and ds did latin gcse all the material they could possibly need was on this website

www.cambridgescp.com/Lpage.php?p=clc%5Etop%5Ehome

and in five text books -details are on the website.

None of it was hard and most of it was very enjoyable. No external teacher or tutor is needed.

funnyperson · 01/12/2011 07:25

I know nothing about the A level

Original poster
Bossybritches22 · 01/12/2011 08:26

funnyperson Complicated??? Tell me about it Grin Thanks for the link.

in my day (cue the old lady voice)

..... one did old fashioned O-level/ A-level then went to poly if you were practical, uni if you were bright & academic or something vocational like me straight to nursing school.

TBH honest it's a nightmare having all these different options & not knowing which uni's recognise what, so I'm eternally grateful for all the input in here!

OP posts:
Original poster
Bossybritches22 · 01/12/2011 08:27

Oh & Sashh I did wonder about approaching the LEA but like you thought I'd be turned down....worth an ask though eh?

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