Aiming for psychology at a Russell group uni- tell me more please!

[Theas18]

DS is year 11 doing A level choices. He's at a highly selective grammar school and is aiming for a full A*/A GCSE profile (not stealth boasting, that's just how he is and tbh how most of the boys at his school are!).

He has to decide what to do next. He could take either a science or an arts path equally well.

He saw a connexions advisor who suggested psychology at uni- now I know very little apart from the clinical psychology aspects, which I have a bit of experience of. It seems (sceptical head on) to be the "default" suggestion if you can't decide sciences vs arts I feel....

(my experience of connexions via work has been they are the ones who sort the non academic kids into apprenticeships so I have little faith in them TBH, I'm not sure they really know what they are doing with kids with a strongly academic aptitude, but I could be very wrong).

DS came out of the 6th form options evening completely confused.

He is very musical and really to not take A level music would be foolish, as he'll find it really easy. He thinks that grade 8 (on the cards in the next 6 months- probably after GCSE simply so he has enough time to practice) will get enough UCAS points anyway, and so maybe he wont do A level- is this right?

He believes that he has to take biology and maths to A2 to get Russell group psychology offers. Maths is the thing he probably may just find tricky (though he is doing further maths this year so he isn't a "duffer" at all). Biology he'll love.

I think he probably should do english as his 4th option, he loves it and is good at it, but history and RS (the ethics/philosophy one) is also up in the running.

How can I advise him? I suspect he doesn't really know much about psychology but has latched onto the suggestion made, so, whilst being aware it could be the right thing for him, he needs to keep his options open I think.

THanks for reading- this is soooo difficult.

I was at a Russell group uni (20 long years ago) I was flat mates with a couple of phycologists. They were lovely, but a bit mad. They and most of their friends seemed to be sorting their own heads out as much as other peoples
The course was a lot of work, reading, essays and projects. Also I'm not sure what careers it leads to. The two I stayed in touch with became teachers.
Personally I'd stick to a straight academic degree because they give the most options afterwards.

What is a russell group uni?
I did psychology at sheffield many moons ago. Started with a BA, but ended up doing a BSc. Very similar really, apart from a couple of modules. I hated the statistics side of things initially, but ended up getting the best result there.
I did Psychology, Sociology and English lang A-levels, purely due to my interest in those subjects. Most of my peers had a real mix of A-levels. Maths and biology would have stood me in good stead and benefitted me on my course.
Was 15 years ago though!

One of my friends daughters has recently started at a Russel group uni studying psychology.

She took A levels in Biology, Government and politics, critical thinking and Psychology.

Don't bank on Grade 8 counting towards UCAS points- not all unis accept them. If you go on the UCAS website you can find out which unis will accept this.

None of the top unis count Grade 8 practical for UCAS points ... but some count Grade 8 theory instead of A level music.

I understand your frustration with the Connexions advice, and tbh I think I would advise your DS to focus on the subjects he enjoys and is good at, and see what Degree courses and careers are opened up by choosing subjects he enjoys.
Sites like Ucas and Unistats are good. You can put in the subjects you enjoy, and UCAS suggests a range of degrees you might like to consider.
The Good University Guides published by The Times, The Guardian etc not only give advice on Universities, they also include some useful information on each subject area. So for example, you could look at the graduate employment stats for psychologists which could be interesting.

can he take pyschology at A level? My son's in his first year at uni and he says there are people on his course who have never taken it before and are struggling/don't like it, because they are starting from scratch. he was advised to do Biology A level and one uni allowed him to drop a grade as a result. he also did psychology

I think its a good degree to take as there are loads of things it can lead to. You can either do a job that involves people eg general management, or do something more medically orientated. Or work for the police doing profiling and one of the previous students went on to design flight control panels.

It sort of straddles science and essay writing from what i can make out. so lots of reading and writing but also experiments.

my oldest loves it and excels, my middle son hated it and failed.

I did Psychology at Durham a very long time ago and came to it from a completely science background. My A levels were Biology, Physics and Chemistry. It does require skills from science and arts as dreamingofsun said but my essay writing was fine even though I didn't have an arts A level. I would have a look at what A levels a selection of courses require.

Here's the link to all the current psychology courses on the UCAS website

search.ucas.com/cgi-bin/hsrun/search/search/StateId/QuEh6GrP8c3Iej56uQaxz_sITGRVq-4T7p/HAHTpage/search.HsKeywordSuggestion.whereNext?query=574&word=PSYCHOLOGY&single=N

I dont know much about it. My DD does psychology as an undergrad and I think she is probably heading for the great sea of unemployed youth when it is all over: however I am told that the career options are many, from clinical psychology (averagely well paid but only half as much as a doctor) to media to banking. Biology and Maths ( the statistics modules S1 and S2) A level are essential. After that all the courses have a standardised content due to a syllabus of some chartered society or other which they are obliged to follow. It is not academically challenging in the least. Put it this way, most medics would do in one or two months what it takes the psychologists three years to do (I expect I will be shouted down for this but it is true!) The choice of university is best decided by where your DS wants to go to university. The male/female ratio is heavily biased towards women as more women apply. It is a very popular course and thousands apply to Bristol where the ratio of applicants to offers is 100 to 1.
There is a website where you can google the top ten universities for psychology. If it were my son I would ensure he puts LSE on as then perhaps he could change course when he gets there. This sounds sexist, but I do think psychology is a very family friendly option for academic women, but the salary just doesn't cut it for someone (probably male) who will be the main full time breadwinner. Sorry as this will sound really sexist but that is how I see it. I wanted my DD to do medicine as I do think it has more options and depth even for psychology but she was adamant she wanted to do psychology and the course is very interesting to her and she is very happy indeed doing it and wants to go into research.

From a scientific point of view there is a national psychology society your DS can join as a student member and journals he can read such as the BMJ and J Clin Psych and he can look at the university undergrad reading list and read a couple of the books and see what he thinks.
Other degree options to consider are: neurosciences, biological sciences, psychology and philosophy, experimental psychology etc.
In addition there are some places (Bath is one I think) which do sandwich degree courses which could be useful.
My DD applied to; UCL, Bristol, York, Oxford, Sussex. Every university does the subject.

I read psychology at Bristol 18 years ago. Theere was the option to do it as a BSc or a BA, the psychology content was the same but it affected the other options you could take. In the first year you had to study two other subjects, so I did zoology and physiology, those on the BA course did things like sociology. My A levels were biology, maths and chemistry. The biology and maths were helpful in the course, however it was almost all assessed on essays and I suffered from not having had an essay writing background at A level. It is worth him looking at what joint honours courses are available, Bristol used to have Psychology with Zoology, you did options from both subjects and had a focus on animal behaviour. Obviously to do that he would need A levels relevant to the second subject. funnyperson our 1st year physiology course was exactly the same as the medics 1st year physiology course.

stripes1 we had to study another subject as well in the first year - I did Zoology and took some later courses in animal behaviour. I think the course has become much more standardised as they all have to include certain content to have accreditation from the British Psychological society and its a "fashionable" course so that the entry requirements have been forced upwards by the sheer numbers applying.

As some others have already said you can do a more sciencey psych degree or a more social science one. Depends on his aptitude. So you can combine it with zoology or you can combine it with sociology if you see what I mean.

Careers are a multitude and he can go into consulting or management type jobs, do a masters in a specialization (clinical or occupational or forensic or....), go into research etc. Psychology grads are in demand because they can analyze problems (they have the stats knowledge to a v advanced level) but they can also write critical essays. So the best of both maybe.

I went into academia and am perhaps the poorest of my friends. Others went into consulting, teaching special needs children, management, clinical/developmental psych etc.

I think he needs to do what he's interested in. I can't emphasize how much that's important in not only doing well but in finding his future career.

The important thing to grasp about doing a psychology first degree in the UK is that it is not in itself a vocational qualification. If you want to become a chartered psychologist years of postgraduate work and study are also required, and getting started can be very tough. Clinical psychology, for example, is one of the most competitive fields around. You can be talking about 1000 applications for 20 places at some universities, and the successful applicants are likely to have a good first degree, a good MSc and quite possibly three or four years in low-paid jobs either side of the MSc. You get paid during the three years of clinical psychology training and the fees are covered by the NHS, but you're still not earning that much, and with the big squeeze on NHS funding psychology posts are amongst the first to be cut.

Don't know what it's like in other branches of pyschology but can't imagine these are easy times anywhere.

Check that any psychology courses that your DS is considering are validated by the British Psychology Society as his career options will be more limited if they aren't. Also consider studying psychology together with another subject as that may give him more choices if he isn't sure of what path he will take as a postgraduate.

Your DS won't necessarily need maths A level as long as he gains an A or higher at GCSE (as there are several statistics modules involved in most psychology degrees). Biology would be a useful subject to have at AS or A level as would psychology.

My DD took the philosophy and ethics A level and really enjoyed it. If your DS likes ethical debates (most teenagers have strong opinions!) he will gain a great deal from the course.

One of my childrens' friends is applying for psychology. It is a very popular course with high entry requirements at Russell Group universities. There is more chance of getting in with biology and maths, entrance requirements are often slightly lower for those with science A levels. A level maths isn't generally a requirement but it does help when applying.

If I was advising a very able child interested in psychology I would encourage them to look at a natural sciences degree that can include psychology. I think the Cambridge NS degree might include enough psychology for accredition with the professional body, but do check. I'd also encourage him to do some work experience in a psychology related field and to read around the subject a bit.

Music isn't going to help much in applying to Russell Group universities, they want academic subjects for most courses. The informed choices guide is worth reading. www.russellgroup.ac.uk/informed-choices.aspx

I don't know about the specific requirements for psychology, but I have been involved with admissions at an RG uni, and in general 3 academic subjects to A2 + Music Grade 8 would be fine; 2 academic subjects + Grade 8 definitely would NOT.

I'm a bit worried about your DS committing 3-4 years to a subject he's lukewarm about - particularly if it is something as 'trendy' and oversubscribed and psychology.

I think you should encourage him to put those higher skills to the test by independently researching what these degrees involve, and where they lead.

If someone was straddling arts and sciences, without a strong personal preference, I'd always steer to (traditional) science. It has a reputation as a 'harder' subject - and hence seems to open all sorts of doors careers-wise. In terms of preparation for life, we live an a densely technological world, so an ability to understand and communicate on this level will advantage many career paths: business, finance, civil service, teaching come to mind immediately as options that are more accessible from a hard science degree.

footprints - agree it can be hard getting onto the course - my son's friend was a straight A grade student, doing psychology A level with a fab personal statement and he didn't even get an interview at oxford or cambridge.

i don't quite follow your argument about 'preparation for life' though. surely the jobs you mention have a strong people bias and having a subject (psychology) that straddles scientific experiment/discipline and understanding people would be ideal?

Dreaming... Psychology is not a school subject so it is hard to get into teaching. If you have a "hard" science degree you are seen as highly numerate, so find it easier to be recruited for Banking and Finance etc. I don't know of any psychology graduate in these areas (although there must be lots) I know of lots and lots of "hard" scientists. There are also careers for which you need a specific Science background.
However OP, I would suggest your son looks hard at the A'level courses and chooses those which interest him the most. Psychology is not the only degree which would follow from a mixture of arts and Sciences. Its a pity he is not at an IB school as he sounds like an ideal IB candidate.

mummy it is round here - my son's have done it at both the local comp and grammar schools.

Sorry I meant it is not taught before KS5/sixth form therefore you can't do a PGCE in it, so it doesn't qualify you to be a teacher. I have a friend with a degree in psychology who has done a primary PGCE, and know some people who have done a "top up" course and then a secondary PGCE (Science, RE, maybe Maths).

mummy - psych is now the 5th most popular a-level subject in the country.
(after GS, Maths, EngLit, Biol)

The more scienced-based psych degrees will like to see either maths or biol, but none (that I know of) require both.

At my RG uni about 70% of students have A-level Psych, about 50% have maths. About 40% have Biol.

i did psychology degree at a russell group uni and am now a psychologist.
i did maths, chemistry, biology at a a level. i wanted to do maths, history biology (which would have been better for psychology incidentally) but school wouldn't let me, even though i knew i wanted to do psych at that point. there is a lot of statistics in degree level psychology. also biology and essay writing.

i would advise against doing psychology if your DS is not really that interested in it tbh, although i love it.

training to be a psych is lengthy, convoluted and end result not that well paid. i suspect as it become more female dominated it will become less and less well paid too

great if you love it, but if not that committted i would advise against.
tis also very popular / trendy, so would be up against lots of others.

i would do a traditional (National Curriculum) subject at degree unless desperate to be a psychologist tbh. it will be better regarded by other employers.

should add my experiences are ahem, over 15 years old! in terms of the degree itself!!

Dreaming Science degrees don't preclude a people bias! They will often involve year in industry, project work and such like. My point was that science is not a nerd-ghetto. Most jobs will assess your 'people skills' themselves (e.g. Developed through extra-curricular responsibilities, or just natural aptitude ) - but will be reassured by the technical knowledge they can assume from your named degree. I don't think psychology offers the same 'free pass' - you have to prove your people skills and your technical skills from scratch. Hence, I think it is a bad choice for the undecided.