Do you really have to go to a grammar school or a posh private school to get to good university?

[supermum007]

I am not a lurker and have name changed recently.
Although my two DDs are born here and we have lived in the UK for more than 15 years I find the educational system a real nightmare
Please correct me if I am wrong - Do you really have to go a grammar or a good private school to go to a top university (say Oxbridge, Durham,UCL etc.,)?
This is the impression I am getting but I could be wrong.
I have been speaking to my friend who lives in a grammar school area (super selective one) and I could gather that there is so much competition.
I live in a non grammar area and there is no selective independent school either.
Dd1 will be going to secondary next September so I am thinking ahead (No children/DH at home this evening :)) so plenty of time to think and to be on MN.

True story:

Family I know did everything to send beloved only daughter to Top Private School. Top Private School routinely gets astonishingly good A-level results. In due course, Beloved Only Daughter also got astonishingly good A-level results as direct result of being at one of the top (if not THE top) school in the country. Beloved Only Daughter applied to OxBridge.

Unfortunately, Top Universities do not take their entire intake from the top educational establishments in the country. They only took two girls from Beloved Only Daughter's A-level year.

Instead of being easily the top of the class in a more average school, Beloved Only Daughter was a mediocre student amongst the creme de la creme. Still brilliant by country-wide standards, but not the shiniest star in her class. She may well have benefited from not being in an amazing, expensive, brilliant, top private school. With her determination, resources and family support she would have done well wherever she was.

She is now at a medium university.

As someone currently interviewing for chemistry at a RG university I can honestly say there is no bias about the school. As long as the grades are good, the school doesn't matter. The real problem is when schools are not good enough environments for students to get top grades in eg, poor teaching, high staff turnover or disruption or where they don't prepare students well for interviews (where the interview is part of selection, we interview all applicants close to our offer but it is rare that they won't get an offer as a result). Lack of help with any additional tests such as BMAT or PAT as well.

Supermum, the 2010 figures are pretty straight-forward: at Oxford, the success rate was about 18 per cent for comprehensive school students and about 23 for students from grammars. At Cambridge, the equivalent figures were 23 per cent and 33 per cent respectively. So, applicants from comprehensives do get in, and in their hundreds.

Having said this, a handful of schools in the South East do supply the bulk of the Oxbridge comp intake. Others may only get in one student a year. Successful comprehensives are often situated in well-off areas and will attract the children of highly educated parents, many of them academics themselves. If you cannot get your DD into one of them, opt for a good after-school tutor, internet-based academic enrichment work and lots of reading. I tweet Oxbridge-geared reading suggestions @oxbridgentrance.

Sort of relevant - I recruit graduates for top publisher. I find that private Ed oxbridge kids have never worked in any job - cafe etc and despite great degrees I need people who have at least some real work experience. So sometimes parents can give almost too much!
Es

Not at all but I do think it does help.

DD1 went to a highly selective grammar, did oxbridge entry to interview and didn't get an offer (the other chap applying for her course at her college in that set of interviews was at Eton!). She's at Nottingham. Even with her background she really wasn't set up for the interviews I think. Will do differently if DS wants to take the oxbridge route.

I went to a fairly seedy comp in the early 1980s and really, taught myself A levels with the aid og my mate Carole. She was their first ever Oxbridge success and I was the first to do my subject, after being told "nursing would suit you" (not what I wanted to hear and I went ahead and did my own thing!). It was bloody hard work all the way though!

No.

newgirl I'm suprised at that - I went to Oxford and all my contemporaries worked - both the privately and state educated

If you are female and from a 'local comp' just forget it!

What a bl**dy stupid question.

Rubbish-they get there from out local comprehensives.

sorry 'out' not out.

still typed wrong -our

I don't agree that you need to go to a good independent school or a grammar school to go to a good university.
However, I do think that these type of school will generally be more clued up about helping a student through the university process, particularly in relation to interviews and additional tests eg BMAT, etc.

My DSs are at/just left a very good comp, and DS1 has gone to a good uni (RG, & one of the best in the country for his subject). However, compared to the support that some schools were able to provide, he was given very little additional help.

DS2 has just started his AS subjects and would like to drop down to 4, but the head of 6th form has told him he has to drop Further Maths if he wants to go down to 4. We know that having the FM will stand him in better stead than either Chemistry or Res Mat (he wants to drop one of these) but we cannot change the schools pov. Again, I think a school with more experience putting students to top Unis would be more open to DS2s arguments that are based on DS1s actual uni offers for the same subject - grrr.

It's not impossible, but very few go to "top" Universities from comps. There was a statistic saying more go from 5 public (private!) schools than 2000 comps. Said it all really.

nope, definitely not. my terrible comp didn't push me to apply to oxbridge (nobody had ever gone there from my comp and it didn't occur to me) but they did help me with general uni application and i went to st andrews and imperial college london (and i'm really pleased with my choices).

No they don't, but as thea said it can help as can supportive parents.
All teachers in state schools are graduates and have therefore gone through the UCAS process themselves. If you are an sixth form tutor in any school private or state surely you make sure you are knowledgeable on the application process. So regardless of the school type the application process should not put any child at a disadvantage. My DC is "in" the process currently. They had a talk about UCAS in the summer term and were told to come back with a draft PS in September. It was read by his tutor and then submitted. He is at a private school but nothing done was magical or inventive.

So I believe that although there should be no difference in the application process the difference lies in the variety in the subjects that different schools offer and exams pupils are persuaded to take. e.g. hard/soft subjects, BTEC or GCSEs etc. These exams can make DCs more or less marketable in the UCAS market place.

Moonferret I think that statistic related to Oxbridge and not all the top UK universities RG etc

Maybe I am naive - I am sure someone will let me know!!!

No!
Three of us from my old Welsh comp in different years at my Russell Group University.

All private schools and most selective state schools work on an assumption that most or all of their children will progress to University.
Good state non selective schools do the same
but by definition, only 10% or so of their pupils are of the academic calibre to get into the top Unis (if you are really thick you only get in to selective schools if you are mind numbingly rich or titled)

What IS shocking is that there are whole LEAs where not one child got into Oxbridge last year (Kirklees) which implies that there is a systemic failure in careers advice at the school and LEA level.
THAT is unacceptable.
EVERY school should be aiming its top pupils for the top places - only then will the proportion of inherently thick but well educated yah's drop.

Why 'posh'...don't get it.Pur ds1 went to a prep for a while...we ain't posh.Lots of parents there wern't posh either.I don't understand the word posh really it makesmy teeth ache
Ds1 is now at selective grammar...but has been home eddded for quite a few years...and no,wasn't hothoused.
Think it harder for children in an environment where it is not ok to be good at lessons etc...dosen't mean they can't go to good uni but makes it tougher .