Does anyone know if Biomeical Science is a good choice instead of Medicine?

[mosschops30]

Had a very pleasing parents evening last night, dd predicted Bs for evrything, but will possibly get As in some subjects with a bit more effort. Shes gone from getting Ds and has really upped her game because she wanted to do medicine. I encouraged her to do her best but know that she s not a straight A student thats required for Medicine.

However her maths teacher said she will def not cope with A level Maths, particularly at the 6th form shes applied to, and she needs that to do Medicine.

Ive looked into other things and in particular Biomedical Science which does not require Maths at most Unis but still has great career options and could possibly be used as post graduate entry into medicine if she still wanted to do it.

Does anyone have any advice or experience?

In the field in which I work, a good biomedical science course would be seen as an excellent starting point for a career. We do find that a lot of young people who are altruistic, would like to earn a good salary and are inclined towards the sciences think of doing medicine as the 'obvious' choice, but aren't aware of all the other jobs out there that might actually suit them better. People do constantly stress how important maths skills are, though - but then some students do find it easier when the maths has a clearly defined context and purpose.

On the other hand (and I know I'm saying the obvious), ultimately it's down to your daughter. She might just not fancy doing biomedical sciences.

What about the other professions working in the NHS?

I don't know the ins-and-outs of them, but they always seemed quite good options: vocational training, employment prospects, qualified status after completing degree...

Radiographer
Sonographer
Physiotherapist
Occupational therapist
Midwife
Nutritionist
Pharmacist
Optomotrist (sp?)

I am sure there are more!

The main thing is to look into the employment prospects and training routes past initial qualification eg. do the NHS offer enough training posts?

You don't need A level maths to do medicine. A level chemistry is compulsory and A level biology helps with the BMAT etc but thats about it. the other A level(s) can be non scientific such as a language or geography or something like physics.

There are good employment prospects for people like radiographers/physiotherapists/speech therapists etc and for some of those nhs bursaries are available and sandwich courses.

You need maths to do physics though... and you ideally need physics to do Radiography/sonography. And probably optometry too.

(One of my colleagues has a DD who has just started radiography without physics A level and she's finding it a bit )

You need physics to do radiography? Basically all they do is take photographs. They don't need to build their own X-ray machine/MRI scanner etc, or even understand how it works. Does the job include something I'm not aware of?

I did biomedical science (natural sciences then a MSc and PhD), because I wanted to do something with biology and chemistry and didn't want to do anything with the general public much less sick ones, so spent years explaining I didn't want to be a sodding doctor...

You don't need maths for either, or physics, though it's helpful.
I originally planned to go into pathology after work exp in local hosp path labs - fascinating work (so years explaining that it's not about dead people unless you didn't manage to figure out what was wrong from samples from the person before they died...), but ended up going into research.

Medical research is great fun but hugely poorly paid and so insecure that 90% of people who try to stay in the field after a PhD have to look elsewhere by age 35. But if you consider wider research for drug companies and food/consumer product firms, and other roles in such firms where degree-level knowledge would be useful, there's a lot more decent employment.

I became a civil servant shortly after my PhD so about half the time my work makes direct use of my expertise - health policy, farming policy, impact of new science on our policies, that kind of thing.

Radiography website: includes where they offer courses
www.sor.org/

Shes not interested in physio, and im a nurse so have managed to put her off that/midwifery etc.

I think most Unis require Maths at A level for medicine, and if you dont have it, then the people who do will get a preference.

She seems quite happy about the Biomedical science because it includes so much of what shes interested in snd then can go on to medicine or use it for something else related

Have you/your dd researched different medical schools and their actual entry requirements for her year? There's other stuff they look at like relevant voluntary work that she can be getting sorted rather than discovering too late she might have had a chance!

zipzap, they only look at the 'other stuff' as a way of selecting among the candidates with shedloads of As. Mosschops is wise to be realistic about her daughter's prospects of getting into med school straight from A levels.

Are these grades A level or GSCE? If A level what were her AS grades like?
A level Maths is not compulsory for medicine. - look at this spreadsheet (but check with medical schools)www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1713208

She might like to look at the 6 year medical school courses, requirements for those are more flexible. Biomedical science courses are a common fallback for those who don't get into medical school and so entry requirements can be high. I think they are lower for chemistry.

Biomedical science courses do tend to be the fallback position for candidates who don't get into medicine (although as someone who is currently interviewing for chemistry courses I seem to have a number of medics with chemistry as their 5th choice). Some universities will allow good biomed graduates direct 2nd year entry onto medicine. Grades can be quite high because of the pressure of numbers, so many students aiming to medicine and baing rejected then being pushed into the biomed schools. Yes there are some good career prospects out there for biomedical scientists but there are also many (again due to the supply and demand issue) who are not working in their chosen field. Has she considered a pure science like chemistry (I'm biased I know)? We're asking for AAB this year for our course. We also run a medicinal chemistry course.

Optometry is an excellent degree although really requires physics and tends to be in the AAA range, same with pharmacy although physics isn't required. There are much greater opportunities for allied health professionals these days compared to in the past. I had a friend who studied prosthetics at university, there really are lots of options out there!

Kritur, just to pick your brains about transferring from biomed science onto medicine in second year. Do you have to be doing your degree at a uni that allows transfers or can you apply to a different one.

Also agree with other people, Chemistry and Biology are needed for medicine, Maths isn't.

Kritir, where do you teach?

I think im going mad! Have no idea where i got the maths thing from, all require bio and chem which she wants to do anyway, and she can do the french and history also
I have a very happy dd now

It's usualy easier to do direct second year entry at the university you are studying at as they will sometimes have an agreement with the biomed dept (who may take people moving in the opposite direction who have failed 1st year or decided that clinical is not for them). Direct 2nd year entry is most common for people who have graduated with 1st class honours BSc/MBiol so it's the same as grad entry except you go into 2nd year not 1st.

Is your DD in Y11 MossChops?

OneHandFlapping...Oh dear...Where do I begin...We are bombarding human beings with dangerous ionising radiation. We need to know how to limit the dose and adjust the settings depending on a huge range of factors...To the ignorant yes it may appear that we ate 'just taking photographs' but believe me it is a whole world of complexities beyond that!

If she's looking at Biomedical Science, make sure she does a course recognised by the IBMS and which will allow her HPC registration later. Further information is available here. Personally, I'd say if she does a recognised degree, it is an excellent career move, because she will have the option of working in the NHS, or using her degree to go on to postgrad study e.g. for a PhD and going into research. A degree in e.g. biology or biochemistry does not allow for this.

Have a look at pharmacolgy degrees. DS1 is applying at the moment. Alot ask for ABB and are RG unis. The course often overlaps for the first year with biomed. It then becomes more focused on pharmacology and can lead to (hopefully) working in research at pharmaceutical companies.

mosschops glad you have a happy dd: but those A levels will be a lot of work with little overlap so if she does them, perhaps she could think about doing the history of medicine/ french history modules in history and spending time with a french exchange to help with the french. Getting good grades will need a lot of support from her mum and dad!

lazymum, tbh, I'd recommend your ds looks at a degree in pharmacy which would give more career options than a degree in pharmacology as there is some overlap, and also allows for pharmaeutical research, but also gives the options of hospital work or working as a community pharmacist. If he does pharmacology, he should consider that he will later need a PhD to get a good job in research in pharmaceutical companies. (I am an academic and a scientist but also with an industrial background).

Do you realise that if you do graduate entry medicine you have to pay 20k plus pa fees? It's an option only for the v wealthy as afaik you cant get student loans for it.

Toomanyoptions* beat me too it, I was about to jump to the defence of radiographers! They absolutely do need to know how to work the machines, and it is definitely not point and click like a camera. Have you seen an MRI scanner onehandflapping? It's seriously complicated and I wouldn't have a clue how to work it. And I'm a radiology doctor. So yes, radiographers need physics.

OMD - too late he has already applied and is adamant this is what he wants. Some of the courses are 4 year MSc.