Failed 1st year medicine

[chickengoujon]

I am so upset and just looking for a bit of support really. My dd worked desperately hard to get into uni to do medicine. She volunteered at a local old people's home, worked at the gps, worked at the hospital, etc. She got fantastic A levels: A*, A, A, B in general studies. She is a lovely girl, really home loving and plesant.

When she went off to uni she was sad and then started to really live it up, not working very hard. She failed an exam after christmas but apparently that 'didn't matter'. She then failed 5 exams in the summer and spent all summer revising for her resits, only to fail again. After the uni asked her to leave last week she told me that she hadn't been eating properly for about 6 months. She is 5ft 8 and 7st 10. She is like a stick insect and I have been very concerned about her extreme thinness, but she reassured me that she was fine. She said how she had difficulty concentrating when revising and couldn't remember things - does anorexia do this? We didn't submit mitigations before her exams because I wasn't aware that she wasn't eating and she thought she was fine. Could we appeal? Is it too late? The uni seem totally disinterested and couldn't care less.

I feel so upset. Getting her in was so difficult and now it seems she has lost everything. She is totally devastated. Thanks for reading.

Chicken is very wise.
Medicine is no longer a good career anyway, and better to be well out of it IMHO

Interesting read.

My son has been kicked out of uni at the end of 2nd year. He has already resat a 1st year, after a tortuous appeal process. There has been no support in all the time he has been there, not even a pointing in the direction of services available. It was certainly not like this at university when I was there.

I think the cold facelessness of it all has been quite shocking.

I have a daughter at another university who has suffered badly socially, despite being a happy gregarious person all the way through school. She was allocated accommodation with a large number of badly behaved boys. The classes/lectures are very large, and include may doing it as a 3rd subject for the first year, so she has found it difficult to make friends there too. She eventually moved out and is building up her social life elsewhere, but it really knocked her confidence.

Other daughter is doing a very high stress hard work degree in a smaller school within another university. The staff are highly motivated, keen, encouraging, as are the older students, and it is a socially tight knit school. A lot drop out and move to other things as it is constant hard work. They do seem to be very human though and daughter is very happy there.

We will have to figure out what approach to take with DS and how to pick up the pieces, as we have only just found out. I think he has some development issues that need addressing which have become clear through this but I expect it will be hard to get help now he is 'adult'. Thanks for the posts - it has been interesting.

Good luck on any appeal. If successful she may be able to redo the first year. Consider if there are experts in university appeals you can pay to help too.
Also her health is the most important thing of all. Under 8 stone and nearly 6 foot is very underweight. She needs to get up to 9 stone at least. As she's a medic she will know as well as anyone how important being a healthy weight is. If she has anorexia it is very hard to treat. However it is possible. We know someone who had it at school and it did get better during her medicine course at Cambridge and she seems to be fine now.

As a medic myself I find it very worrying that people force their children into medicine just because they get straight As. I would hate to be starting off now. The hospital jobs are awful. You may work fewer hours but you cover more patients and the advent of clinical nurse specialists means that a junior doctor is often only doing paperwork not seeing patients which they need to do.
My son wanted to do medicine but had to drop highers due to his dad dying 8 weeks before his exams. I am actually quite relieved. I think he looked at medicine through rose coloured spectacles because I work in a lovely GP practice and it is a great atmosphere.
There are no consultant posts available in some specialities. If you want to get married even if you give 8 months notice there is no guarantee you will get time off for wedding and honeymoon. It's awful.
Don't go there.

Comments like this make me sad. My DS is in 4th year medicine and loves it. No one forced him to do it and he was not a straight A student.

Most people are quite jaded about their careers after a certain point and doctors are no exception. I know it won't be easy for him, but there is nothing else he would rather be doing.

I think the best thing for students is to do varied work experience to give them an insight into what medicine really entails , it is super rewarding but exhausting and very stressful too . Out of the three work experience students I had this year 2 decided to do other careers after experiencing the realities of the job.
The real sadness is the poor career advice sixth formers receive so they tend to apply to the better known career pathways eg Law or Medicine when some of them may have been happier in another career.

Agree -- it is also important to be offered very early clinical exposure in the first year of med school. Not all universities do this.

I just wanted to say to anyone who is having trouble, or whose children are having trouble, to seek out the student union's advice and well being services. They are independent of the university and they often have enough clout to sway decisions, especially decisions that may have been made too hastily by the university.

Many thanks to all who posted. DS went and spoke to the history dept at the same uni and they are more than happy to take him - he does have 3 A passes and thankfully one of them was religious studies which is considered a relevant discipline. While relieved it has been settled, it doesn't alter the fact that it's been a bit of a torrid time for the whole family.

DS was not a natural scientist; he worked at subjects he didn't much like to get the entrance qualifications. He is good at essay based stuff and will probably be much more suited to history. MUST STRESS that there was no parental pressure here. We would have been happy for him to go into anything really as long as he enjoyed it and it lead somewhere eventually.

We are not sciency people (mostly lawyers)and to be honest don't know where the idea of medicine came from - ds decided when he was about 14 and once you get on the track I think it's difficult to say that you've changed your mind. In part I think ds wanted a career path so that he didn't have to think too far ahead or make choices. He got three offers to do medicine but with hindsight he wasn't ever that gung ho when we visited the universities in question. I should have been a bit more on the ball and questioned him a lot more on motivation and ability to complete the course. Easy to be wise after the event tho!

Oh dear - have learned lesson form all this and third child who has no idea of what he wants to do will not apply to uni before he leaves school. We'll see what he gets by way of A levels, take a gap year and consider everything before he goes anywhere. Boys do seem more prone to this kind of uncertainty - ds had a veneer of maturity, but really is still quite young underneath. Pity that medical faculties are not keen on a gap year as we could have saved a lot of money and left a place for a student who was totally committed.

That sounds a good solution. He can do post grad law and earn a lot more than doctors do and have a nicer life, perhaps or just join a company on its graduate recruitment scheme in advertising or BP or something with his history degree. My girls didn't read law, enjoyed their degrees very much and then did it after.

I was just perusing the message boards and found this old thread of mine. I really hope that it all works out for your son and i am sure it will. He has fab A levels and just needs to get his confidence back. Having read some of these posts: she was never forced to do medicine, so I don't where that came from. She chose it herself and everyone at the university in question was totally useless and of absolutely no help whatsoever in her hour of need! I have concluded that students are just money in the bank to universities and they have no interest in them or their welfare from my experience. My dd is now extremely happy. She works in a brilliant international firm who are sponsoring her to do her degree. She recently bought herself a Mini and is enjoying life. There is life after medicine and I hope your son will see that soon.

Badly worded post there - sorry!

Great to hear this. DD has suddenly announced she wants to be a medic. We are not sure but luckily the A levels will be the same as she would have chosen anyway. Lets see if work experience puts her off - I have managed to line up a summer job working in the kitchen at a care home. If not I will show her this thread. If she is still keen we will support her but have been pre warned to keep an eye out.

I hope this thread doesn't put posters off medicine. My DS is now in his third year and absolutely loves it. His University seem to go out their way to make the medics feel privileged and valued. He has a lot of respect for the lecturers and has, so far, been very happy with his treatment by the Doctors when he has been on placement. One of the doctors on his last placement sat with him every day and went over all the interesting cases. ( She also bought him a coffee every day )

I think the admissions procedures for medicine are designed to try and weed out applicants who are not going to succeed as doctors but there is only so much they can do. The admissions policies are extremely rigorous. They are not just looking at academics. It costs in K250 to train each medical student and the universities must want to avoid any drop outs.

I don't know how the pastoral care works at university but I don't think it is realistic to think they would spot problems unless there were some very obvious symptoms. I would have thought it more likely that flatmates would provide a better support system than the university Although that would very much depend on whether you were lucky with your flatmates or not.

I don't think failing a first set of exams is a disaster but then going on to fail the resits is much more of a concern. The students would have had extra time to revise for the resits. I understand the exams get harder in later years so you can understand the universities point of view that they take a harsh view of students who fail their resits. Obviously, they should take account of any mitigating factors and they absolutely must provide support when they know a student is having problems.

My DS's university has a 'three strikes and you are out policy' so if someone fails the first year exams and the resits and are allowed to repeat the year they are absolutely not allowed to fail any more exams over the whole five year course. Even if its by 1 question.

DS2 has always wanted to do medicine. He has just started sixth form. I have found this thread really worrying! I understand that most posters do not wish to say which are the least supportive universities for medicine, but would anyone care to say which are the most supportive? Either from personal experience or anecdotally? Any pointers would be very gratefully received.

See above, my DS loves it. To be fair, the role of university is not to support you in the same way school or family does. I agree there does not seem to be a lot of pastoral "care" going around but I would not select where to study on that basis. Just be sure your DC has been exposed to some sort of clinical setting and I would say that you need a really strong work ethic to get through the mountains of information that medicine throws at you. That seems more important than being super bright. Thousands of students graduate from medicine every year but a few drop out. It's the same for a lot of subjects--one of DS's friends is on his 3rd attempt at 1st year after failing law twice and transferring to another course......

MindGone. Here is all the official data on student satisfaction for UK medical schools. It's generally very high compared with other courses.

It's hopefully more reliable than canvassing opinions on here
Once your DS starts going on open days he will get a much better idea of where feels right for him. It is tricky as they have to wiegh up where they want to go to with where they have the best chance of getting an offer. My DS choose three Uni's he 'loved' and one that he 'liked' but was very confident of getting an offer. You have to play to your strengths be they high GCSE's or high UKCAT scores or whatever . It was all very complicated!

Thanks very much for your input Candlefire and Tooties. The link to unistats isn't working at the moment, but should be tomorrow. Can I just ask, where do you get the information about which unis prefer high GCSEs, or UKCAT etc? Is it just by looking at each individual med school, or elsewhere? Good info to have, so they can play to their strengths. Tooties, is your DS at the place he loved or liked, out of interest?

Gosh, loads of my (doctor)sister's friends failed a year and repeated it. Seems really harsh for them not to allow that. The mitigation should work surely as it's a psychological problem and so realising it has taken a while? She could also study biochemistry and get onto a medicine programme after that. Failing a year does not mean she isn't good enough, I did English and got a third in my first year!! It's so easy to take your eye off the ball when you have all that going on.

As a medic I would tell you that if she leaves medicine she won't ever do it again. No other uni will take her/let her apply.

Speak to the uni - they may let her have a restart or year out.

The head of pastoral care/welfare of medics is who you want.

We are a prestigous med school and yet they are shit hot at this stuff. I'm so sorry she has had a bad experience. Some medics are indeed up themselves about this, the majority not.

My love to your dd

Oh just realised this is an old thread!!

Hi, I am tooties but I have namechanged

My DS got into his first choice Uni but he would have been happy with anywhere. He got a very high UKCAT score so there were a few places where he was almost guaranteed an interview. Obviously, he had done all the normal things such as work experience and written a reasonable personal statement etc.
Due to my sons unusual educational history (we had lived abroad so he had no GCSE's ) we had to really examine each of the Unis admissions procedures. Every one of them is different and they change year on year We got everything confirmed in writing,

The best places to start looking are to look on The StudentRoom website and to read a few books on getting into medicine.

You can also start reading the Uni prospectuses and start thinking about booking open days. (Find out when the booking starts for places your son may be interested in as they are usually overbooked)

You could also search old threads on Mumsnet. You may recognise my posts under other names

The only information that can be trusted is that contained in each Uni's medicine admissions policy. There is an awful lot of misinformation about with regards to getting into medicine. We were given conflicting information ALL the time . I would be wary about trusting anyone without double checking the actual official policies.

Some schools are more helpful than others. My sons huge comprehensive school doesn't usually have kids go into medicine so were not that helpful. (they were lovely but not so helpful )

As you know the competition is stiff and being passionate and brainy is only half the game. I think the other half is choosing where to apply.
I helped my son do the initial research but he went to all the open days on his own. He thinks he got more out of it as it made him think for himself.

I hope everything works out for your son.

Well done Chicken's DD.
One cousin of mine failed his premed course in Dublin and never looked back.

mindgone the Student Room website is pretty good most of the time but a friend of my child's who posts there a lot got something wrong this year because they didn't realise the university had changed its UKCAT policy. Same misinformation was given on mumsnet, but corrected. It is wise to be wary but if you rely on universities published policies you often wont get the full picture. They generally don't give clear advice on UKCAT or BMAT standards, for example, and when they do it's easier to find via the Student room. People are more honest at open days about what they really look for so screen with TSR and then visit. The UKCAT is changing this year and that may change how med schools use it.

Student satisfaction rates are often a good guide. After looking at Kings we wouldn't consider it although it has had problems with its exams and hopefully will improve. Birmingham gets a bad press on mumsnet but they start their course by telling students 60% will become gps. Rates arent dramatically different at most med schools and medical students do need to be sure they will be content to be a gp. Medical schools like evidence that students know that it isn't all surgery so some sort of community experience is helpful. They also need to appreciate that surgery can mean very long and tiring days in theatre. They need stamina. If they are very keen on surgery they need to consider that eventually health may not allow them to operate safely, their career may take them into administration.

At one medical school parents were asked "what sort of doctor do you want your child to be ". My answer would have been "I don't want them to be a doctor". Anyone bright enough to get into med school can have a career with better working conditions and possibly better hours and pay elsewhere. If they are determined to go ahead the drop out rate is actually quite low and students tend to support each other.

I wouldn't have said medical schools aren't keen on gap years. Lots of students don't get into medicine first time, 60% of applicants get no offers. My impression is that those who reapply after a gap year spent doing something relevant (going abroad may impress less than being a nursing assistant) have their choice of med school. They have shown commitment and gained a better appreciation of what is involved. Taking a year to gain experience and confirm it's what you want would probably go down rather well. The more academic schools would probably want to see some continued study, even if it's just reading about what you have experienced at work.

Many careers don't require a specific degree, employers just need to see that the problem that caused them to drop out of medicine is resolved. History is a good alternative degree choice as it requires quite an analytic mind.

That's a good post AlreadyTaken. I totaly agree that finding out about medical school admissions has to be a multi pronged approach.

It depends on the applicants skill sets too. If you are a 14 A GCSE / 4 A at A'level student with a stunning UKCAT score you probably don't need to analyse everything quite so much.
The main point I was trying to get across is that everything should be double checked as there is incorrect advice around.

I took a look at the student room wiki for medicine a level requirements for 2014 and it looked very comprehensive. It is certainly a great place to start.