How did the first year go for your DC? First year exam woes.

[funnyperson]

Its the end of the first year at University for my DS and he has grown up, gained in confidence, independence and happiness.
His end of year exam results sheet reveals firsts and upper seconds in all his papers, but no record (NR), alas for- wait for it- 8 out of 12 essays. They were all submitted, agrees the faculty, when he enquired today, and emailed them his proofs of submission. But the tutors didn't mark them. Not for want of time- some of these essays were submitted in the Autumn term.

'As a favour' he will be allowed to retake the year. I am so angry I will probably get a heart attack. I am taking it to the head of the exams section but any more suggestions would be welcome. Any others have first year exam woes/successes?

also, I'm not at all saying this is the case here, but it does remind me of an irate mother who was onto me about her son's exam results; I said that whilst I couldn't disclose specific information but that she might want to talk to him about his attendance. She said, 'oh, but he's been to everything; he told me that he couldn't come home at weekends because he was working so hard' . The disclosure issue I'm afraid is an important one - students are adults and have the right to confidentiality.

As a teacher my contract is with the student, and I assume that the student can take responsibility for his or her own actions - including submission deadlines and the like. I would be very accommodating in circumstances where there are real problems - but I wouldn't routinely pursue a student who didn't submit. I would drop them an email the first or even second time, but after that I wouldn't (admittedly I have considerably more students than the OP's son's university). If the student is not able to do this, then in my view they are not ready for university study. In RG universities, as I understand it, undergraduates are not necessarily top of the priority list.

As I say, I am not suggesting any of this is true for the OP's son - I simply don't know - but his situation does sound highly irregular if the full facts have come to light, and he (not you) should pursue it through the university's appeal process.

So has it transpired that all 8 essays were submitted, but that all were submitted past the Faculty deadline, and that these essays count towards the exam marks for the year?

Shouldn't there be some kind of official 'late submission' policy regarding assessed coursework, with 10 marks being substracted per day late, or something of the sort? Were they handed in so late that they could be given 0 marks?

If this is the case, there's some blame on both sides. The student has been extremely irresponsible and negligent (failing to hand in any assessed essay on time is really dreadful), but at our University, someone would have got hold of him after the first failure to submit and given him a good bollocking.

It also appears that the Faculty deadline is before the School deadline, so there is an argument as to whether or not they were actually submitted late. That seems rather foolish, and open to this kind of argument.

In my institution the guidelines for coursework are crystal clear .. Up to x weeks late snd marks are deducted. Beyond that the student scores zero. These are the rules that students sign up to. Extensions are given only if strong extenuating circs apply. IME it is very very very rare for students to score zero (I've seen it once in 7 years).

I'm still not clear in his case whether he missed the stated deadline.

OP - I don't get this 'offer' to repeat thing. Why was the girlfriend offered a chance to repeat and she took it 'under duress' (it sounds like?)? We offer students a chance to repeat only if there's been a big problem during the current year. So eg there have been cases of extreme Ill health so students are offered a chance to resit the year if they haven't done well or if they failed to sit their exams. If they've just larked about and didn't pass a couple if modules then they will probably be offered a chance to resit in august. Most of the time they'll have the marks capped.

I had a student who emailed about his poor grades and turned out that one of his grades was incorrectly inputted by clerical staff which then brought his average up quite significantly. He thought he'd have a chance to resit - no chance since he didn't fail anything. He'll just have to do bloody well next year to make up for his grades.

In answer to your questions about 21st century academics 'getting away' with not marking and giving feedback... No way. Or at least no way if it's a decent university. In the 'old' days there might have been bigger chance of getting away with it since there's less regulations. These days we have too many admin staff and computer programmes and programme reviews that will kick in to keep us all in line!!

And yes at our school if assignments are not handed in (via computer programme called Turnitin that also detects plagiarism) then it's an automatic zero. Unless you've been given an extension. And extensions are not granted just because your computer happened to have been hit by a virus that morning you tried to print off your essay.

Dear drcrab, 5 of the essays were submitted via Turnitin and DS has the aknowledgements, three manually and DS has the receipt. All were handed in by the school deadline which was later than the faculty deadline.

The college deducts 2% for every working day the essays missed the faculty deadline-so an essay submitted 50 days late would get zero. But would still be counted as a submission with a right to retake.

I really dont know what to think. It seems that tutors simply didnt mark and certainely didnt give feedback.

funnyperson it all just seems really strange. So, were the essays late then? Often students at my institution who submit late get fail grades: but they would all have the right to resit (capped) or to repeat the module (uncapped). There is something wrong here, but I can't work out for the life of me where the problem lies.

good luck to him sorting it out

Why would the staff mark an essay that is going to be given zero because the student had missed the deadline?

I wouldn't.

Students know the deadlines. They are adults. We treat them as adults.

I think your first instinct to be pissed off with your son was correct. Blaming his lecturers is missing the point IMO.

But you are right that it is strange that he is being required to resit the whole year rather than just the coursework that he messed up.

Oh dear this does sound very odd.From your description of the College though I think I can guess where it is and anecdotally they do have s reputation for thinking that there is one rule for them and another for everyone elseThey are of coursed heavy on overseas students and postgrads and are not desperately interested in the undergrads.Must stress though that I have no proof of this ,just hearsay

christ funnyperson this sounds awful, I hope that you and DS get to the bottom of it soon and get it resolved

funnyperson how's it going ?

Not good as DS has clammed up.
I have no idea whether he has sent the email to the exams office asking for a clerical check, as advised by one of the exams officers. All is now compounded by DS girlfriend's parents being furious that she has to repeat the year and most likely blaming DS.
Very sad - there is at least one 2000 word essay with a bibliography that has zero marks - or rather is unmarked. It is all the more astonishing that he got a first in one unit, with 1/3 of its coursework unmarked.
DS is not communicating at all to anyone as far as I can see. Oddly enough I know he has done these essays and submitted them- he has shown me online.
At present I am on suicide watch tbh, making sure he eats and comes back home.

Oh funnyperson how dreadful for you all ,I was so hoping to hear that you'd got some kind of answer .
I don't know what to say .... could you talk to your DS again and persuade him that he should persue this ?
Would he copy you into some of the emails - so that you'd at least know what had gone ?
Could you contact the Uni - even if they're not meant to respond to you ,at least it would alert them to what's happening ? Maybe you could include a line to the effect that you know they can't respond ?
You have my utmost sympathy - but things will get better .

It is a difficult position, DS is the student, not I, so only he can communicate directly with the uni.
Yet he is clearly beside himself with a mixture of distress and blame and anger and despair. He seems to feel that if he states his case it will go against him.

I have read and re read the faculty and college rules and I think it is highly likely that if his essays had been marked and then marks deducted for late submission, according to the written policy, DS would not fail.

Strictly speaking he hasn't failed as yet as he has an incomplete result. (NC=not complete)

But none of this really helps.

Doesn't sound good OP. What are the options presented to him?? Perhaps you may speak to his personal tutor or director of programmes and say that although you know they can't speak to you about it, you are concerned and need their help. See what they say. They may be galvanized into action ESP if you mention the suicide watch bit.

I think you might contact them again,OP, and let them know how your son has been. I know there is a rule about confidentiality but, speaking from experience, if it comes down to the studunt's welfare we don't hang up the phone when the parent calls with their concerns.

It is not the case that only he can communicate with the uni.

There is nothing to stop you phoning up the course director/tutor and explaining the situation from your point of view. Although he/she cannot give you any information, I think that given that your son is in no fit state to deal with this it would be a very good idea for you to get in touch with them directly.

This is a good idea for several reasons.
1 - it will be useful for the uni to know how this is affecting him.
2 - they can advise you about the best procedure in 'cases like this' without breaching any confidentiality
3 - they might decide to trigger a review based on your info.

But the key point here is that your DS has to realise that all is not lost. He is in the early stages of his degree and there is time for him to put this right. A very lovely student of mine had to resit a year due to non-completion of work in the early stages of his degree. He sorted this out, got his degree and now has a great job :)

Thank you . Some good advice here. I will contact the Head of dept as the undergrad tutor is on holiday.

Sarky whilst I see what you mean about your lovely student that student didn't complete the work. My DS has done all the work and submitted it by the deadline so it is quite a different situation. That is why I am so cross and DS so depressed. I don't see why DS should retake a year because his tutors cant be bothered to mark undergrad essays.

The tutors should have fed back all year-especially after I emailed his tutor in March querying the absence of feedback and DS concern. The school deadline wasnt till May!

I have explained to DS that I will finance a repeat of the year and it could be positive as he would know the ropes and he could learn lots- do different modules, hone his essay writing and meeting deadline skills etc. However DS feels it unjust for him to repeat a year and pay £10,000 or so extra because of
tutors (who clearly think they can get away with this- and possibly will get away with this).

Incidentally other students are now owning up to similar (absence of) results- the shame has been so great that they haven't before owned up even to each other or their parents- especially the international ones paying three times the fee. Do you think this could be a secret money spinner for the dept?

I feel for your DS but I very much doubt it is a "secret money spinner". You say your DS has now "clammed up" about it and won't pursue it. I think he must have realised he has not submitted all the work on time but doesn't want to disappoint you by admitting it. With this confusion about the deadlines it does look like he has messed up somewhere :( As others have said, universities won't just offer a student the chance to resit a year as a "favour". Resits are normally capped and available only in certain circs. I find it very very unlikely that they have justed neglected to mark any work and denied all knowledge.

Funnyperson.
From what you have said it seems to me that your son is at fault here. It doesn't really matter when the school deadline is if the students were clearly told that a shorter deadline applies to their course. Ime this is fairly common. So while I feel extremely sorry for your son, based on what you have said here he must take the blame for not submitting this work on time. That said I am surprised that this wasn't highlighted earlier in the year. Also as i've said before I'm surprised that he had to retake the whole year and not just specific modules.
The idea of staff "not bothering" to mark assessed coursework does not ring true to me. The only situations I can think of where work is not marked is when the student has missed the late submission deadline or where the plagiarism score is high.

And btw it would be wrong for staff to give feedback on an essay that was submitted past the late deadline because the that student would have an unfair advantage when they came to resubmit. Likewise it would be wrong to give feedback on an essay with a high plagiarism score.

And the idea that resitting students are a money spinner is nonsense. To be blunt resits are a headache for us. Loads of extra admin and very damaging to the very important student satisfaction scores.

Sorry if this all sounds harsh. :(
You need to get to the bottom of what went on. We can all speculate about what was likely to have happened, but at the end of the day you need to find the truth.

I think I did my masters at the same institution, funnyperson. My tutor didn't bother to mark anyone's coursework until the summer holidays. If it is the same institution, then having made the school deadline means the essay can be resubmitted for a pass mark, but if the unit has failed due to failure in coursework, the whole unit has to be re taken.

funnyperson - sorry but there's no way institutions actually like resits. We hate it so much it's not funny. It interrupts our research time; it eats into any holiday time that we might want to take (and I'm talking about a couple of weeks, not the 6 weeks that schools get) so no it's not about 'generating' income at all. TBH, if academics can blindly pass students so that resits can be avoided, I imagine some would (pure speculation on my part..!).

You need to get to the bottom of what went wrong... you need to find the truth. I cannot imagine any bonafide institution (whether it's russell group or otherwise) have such rules.

like others have pointed out, there's no point in marking work that's submitted late (unless previously agreed to) or work that's highly plagiarised. It gives unfair advantage to other students who worked to keep to the deadline, and work that's highly plagiarised isn't the student's own work is it? so why mark it?

If your son gives you a written authorisation to discuss this with the university they have no right to withhold information. Personally I would insist before agreeing to fund another year that I knew exactly what had happened and what was necessary to prevent a repeat performance. Confidentiality is for those funding themselves.

It does sound as if he persistently submitted work late so you need to understand exactly what their rules are on that. Repeating a whole year sounds excessive if they were all submitted - could he have faked the receipt?