You know how in theory none of the unis knows which others have been applied to?

[Ponders]

One of DS2's friends has actual offers from Cambridge & LSE (so must be pretty desirable), but was rejected by the other 3 he applied to (I don't know which they are) - how on earth can that happen??? (Unless his PS was tailored specifically to Cambridge & LSE...?)

They can deduce if you have applied to Oxford or Cambridge because their cut off date is much earlier. Most students get their applications in in early November, so one that comes in early September can be assumed to have Oxford or Cambridge on it.

Not necessarily Hallelulia because some children put their forms in early anyway and some only put oxford or cambridge on their ucas forms when they first submit and add the others later.

Ponders, if it's a really popular course then all the top universities will be inundated with more highly desirable candidates than they know what to do with and the whole thing is a bit of a lottery and to gain 2/5 offers in any permutation is probably not that unusual. Also Cambridge interview pre offer (most don't, but not sure about LSE), so someone who interviews well is more likely to get an interview there than elsewhere.

yes, that's true; but others (ie non-Oxbridge applicants) also get their applications in early, & none of the unis are supposed to know whether you've had an offer from Oxbridge, are they?

DS2 applied to Oxford, so got his app in early (deadline 15 Oct I think), but received 2 offers from other unis before he even knew whether he had an interview; he had one, but was subsequently rejected by Oxford, & also by LSE (without interview) but the other 2 didn't know that when they offered.

Timing is slightly different for Cambridge (academic tests done at interview, not before, & decisions announced after Christmas, not before) but even so I'm amazed that the friend's had no other offers. Another friend was rejected by one of his choices before his Oxford interview, but also has an offer from there.

It's all a bit surprising...

oops, my ^^ went awry in that post!

snorkie, the friend mentioned in my OP was predicted all As or A*s - so it is a bit surprising that he wasn't made any offers from his other applications as DS2 was...

I don't find this surprising actually.

It is extremely competetive this year and there are a lot of good candidates out there.

A few years ago DS's friend only received 2 offers for Medicine - but one of those was from Cambridge.........

Also, for somewhere like Durham which is old, collegiate and one of the 'second best to Oxbridge' group there will probably be more than 50% or the Oxford and Cambridge applicants plus those who for whatever reason didn't apply to Oxbridge. Would imagine it's similar at UCL, LSE, Imperial etc but Durham always stands out with the colleges and archaic traditions as being especially similar.

I think it depends on the subject as to how surprising it is. If eg economics it's so competitive everyone will have A & A predictions (if not all As) and far far more applicants than places, ditto medicine. If maths, then anyone getting an offer from Cambridge is highly likely to get offers from nearly everywhere else.
Can you disclose the subject?

I would, but I don't know it, snorkie! (boys much less communicative than girls IME, I only picked this up from a stray remark & DS2 wouldn't have a clue about the details )

ahh, that's boys for you!

Oh, also depends a bit where else he applied. Durham & Bristol for eg have many more applicants per place than some of the others and Edinburgh gives extra points to local applicants allegedly so very difficult to get an offer if you're English for some subjects (even with good grades). And another factor could possibly be GCSE results as some places filter on those, so if they were less than perfect that could also be an issue if he'd chosen places with that policy.

DS2 is in his first year at university doing economics.
He applied to Oxford and so had to get his application in by 15th Oct 2009. We learnt later that in fact he could have put in other applications later than this date. Bristol for instance offered him not straight economics, but Accountancy with Economics which he was not interested in. Did they do this because they knew he had applied to Oxbridge and thought he may get in ( he didn't, but got to interview so must have looked good enough on paper), were annoyed that they may be second choice to Oxbridge, weren't going to offer one of their straight economics places to someone who may turn it down.
One of his female friends who had 12 A*'s at GCSE from a local comp and A grades at AS was also turned down for history at Bristol and was also an Oxford reject.
My advice with hindsight is to maybe (if you can) put in applications for other universities after the Oxbridge deadline date. A lot of universities don't start to give offers out until much later on in the UCAS cycle.

I really don't belive in this conspiracy theory. University admissions tutors have far to much to do without second guessing where applicants have applied or might get offers from. Oxbridge and other top universities could probably fill their places several times over and it is all a bit of a lottery anyway, bearing in mind the number of university applicants with all As and A*s. Just because someone has offers from top unis doesn't mean that person is head and shoulders above all other applicants. It's a bit arogant for anyone to think that just because they received an offer from Oxbridge that they should have received an offer from other universities lower down the leaugue tables.

Oh I don't think he thinks that, cg - I was just curious, that's all (as I said it was just a passing remark by DS2)

Several of my DDs friends ONLY got offers from Oxford. Really , four rejections and then a yes from Oxford.

DD herself was rejected from all her uni choices in year 13, including Oxford, bar Durham despite predictions of 4 A grades. Tried again for Oxford post A levels with much the same personal statement and reapplied to the three universities which had rejected her as well(with actual results marginally worse than predicted the year before) and got offers from all three within a week of her application followed by an Oxford offer a couple of months later.

Meanwhile DS applied pre A levels for PPE to Oxford, Warwick, York, Exeter and Durham, got offers from Warwick, Exeter and York ( all within days of being rejected by Oxford). Accepted his 3 A offer from Warwick, in fact achieved 3 As and applied again to exactly the same universities. Offers quickly from York and Exeter then had to wait an age for Oxford interview and rejection ( waves at ponders*), then got offer from Durham...and then just a week ago ( ie 6 months after the application) got a rejection from warwick. the same university who had wanted him the year before and whose offer last year he had out achieved. I suppose it wasn't rocket science for them to work out that he was applying to Oxford, and apparently they didn't like it but clearly they kept him hanging on as an insurance almost until they were sure they had filled all their places.

But he LOVED Durham when he went there just before easter so all is well that ends well.

And to precis above rambling post - I think for the oversubscribed courses it is a kind of lottery and I also think that some universities assume that certain candidates are "too good" for them and are almost certainly headed for other unis and don't want to "waste" an offer on them

FIFIFI!!!!

lovely to see you - very sorry to hear about Warwick after all that, the bastards but I bet DS will have a wonderful time at Durham! (DD1 had offer/interview at Durham (11 years ago...); I loved it, but she didn't, & opted for a redbrick instead. She regrets it now )

Agree about lottery aspect - after all for every student with 5 offers 4 are effectively wasted but presumably up to 4 other students don't get offers because of it. Goodness knows how the unis work it out (combination of spreadsheet & coin-tossing probably )

I am an admissions tutor.

I have hundreds of applications.

Believe me I wouldnt think to try and work out where else people had applied...and why would I actually want / need to know that information?

I make the choice based on what is in front of me

I'm sure the details are on the system about whether it is the first choice or not though (although might be wrong - admin dealt with that part).

Ponders 'Goodness knows how the unis work it out (combination of spreadsheet & coin-tossing probably'

Pretty much . We work on the proportion who accepted and came over the last few years and keep our fingers madly crossed.

I do not sleep the week of results because I have nightmares that all students I have offered a place to will get their grades and choose us.

Now they are wanting to fine us if we go over our target numbers (think 6k per student or something) so I think a lot of universities might end up having to start reducing the number of places they offer and start going to clearing

peppa
Can I pick your brains (and experience!) please?
DD is working hard to meet her uni offers, and may do it. However, there is the possibility of her gaining one year's work experience connected with her course, that it would only be possible to do this year. She will be very lucky to get it.
How would her firm and insurance unis be likely to feel if she asked to delay her start on the course in 2012?

Thank you.

I really cannot comment on what other uni's would do.

Do you mean she has applied, got an offer but wants to delay the start?

I would say yes if the course was relevant. If she was an excellent student I may well say yes if she wanted to spend the year on a beach (but I havent come across many who would ask to delay a start for that )

I guess it depends on how vocational her course is as to whether they would see it as a good thing or not.

We don't get many applying knowing they won't be starting that year though.

From an experience gained viewpoint I would say always go for that work experience - she may not get that chance again but if she gets offered a place this year there is no real reason why she shouldnt get it next year too.

Thanks Peppa. We're thinking that the 12 months work experience will give her something else to offer when (if) she graduates, despite the obvious financial reasons for going this year. To be fair, she doesn't know if she's going to get this opportunity, but she's thru' to the final stages, so it's looking more positive, but of course, she's had to make her firm and insurance choices incase it doesn't come off.

Personally I'd go for the beach option!!

Thank you - and sorry OP for the hijack.

oh don't worry, aj&jj - the whole thing is a nightmare for parents!

however good the work experience though, is it worth committing to an extra £18K student debt???

Loathe to say it ...but if she has a fantastic work experience opportunity and makes connections - she might then not actually need uni.

Just a thought.

Personally I think excellent experience (if it is excellent) would be worth that extra £18k because it would increase her chances so much more of actually getting a job and progressing quicker. Might buy it back so to speak?

Fififi One of DD3's friends at school is holding an AAA conditional offer for PPE at Warwick for 2011 so on any straightforward basis your DS's rejection with 3 A's in the bag doesn't make sense.

DD3 also got a rejection from Warwick a couple of weeks back having sent in her app in mid Sept (like your DS, at least 6 months). She's got offers from Oxford, Durham, UCL and Bristol though so she's fine. She certainly didn't assume that she was 'too good'. She assumed that she didn't have, or hadn't mentioned, enough ec's outside of her subject for Warwick. A friend with the slightly less good grades but hugely sporty flew in for the same subject at an early stage.

DS2 who is in his first year at Durham and reckons around 50% of his fellow students are either Oxbridge rejects or, and there are a few, ones that rejected Oxbridge. DS2 is in the first category. He's v happy there and still sees some of the people socially that he met at his two night interview at Oxford. Some got in and some didn't.

I wish you all good luck if you have DCs doing A2s this year.