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Original poster

Mums to be excluded from colleges

59 replies

biddles · 03/03/2011 16:26

I am an ESOL (English for speakers of other languages) teacher and thought you should know what the government is doing to further marginalise vulnerable women in our country. At the moment, mums who have come here from other countries and call Britain home have access to ESOL at college either for free if they are in receipt of benefits, or at reduced cost if their partners earn very little. However, the government has decided that only those on JSA or ESA (so called 'active benefits') will be entitled to learn English- everyone else must pay an amount that for most families is an unaffordable luxury. The social costs of this will be huge, and the hardest hit will be women who are looking after their children and therefore not on JSA. These women will not be able to integrate into society, will not be able to help their children with their homework, will not be able to access services that they are entitled to.....the list goes on. This is not about immigration, this is about fair treatment for all. These women live here, many of them are British passport holders, their kids are British, and yet they are being treated appallingly. Please help! Please write to your MP to stop these cuts going through.

OP posts:
MadameDefarge · 04/03/2011 15:40

Err, Jess, France for one, and I should imagine quite a few other European countries also.

MadameDefarge · 04/03/2011 15:42

And I hardly think that teaching ESOL to people is the actual reason we are on the verge of bankrupcy. Bankers, subprime, credit crunch ring a bell.

Oh, actually you are so right. Its all those scrounging foreign women who caused the global economic crash.

CaptainNancy · 04/03/2011 15:48

erm- Sweden does.

JessRabbit · 04/03/2011 15:49

Well that told me Hmm

Why should we pay for people to come here who can't speak the language?

The vast majority of bankers are net contributors.

CaptainNancy · 04/03/2011 15:53

Rofl- you did ask! Grin

MadameDefarge · 04/03/2011 15:59

Err, do we actually pay for them to come here? I thought we were talking about British women or women with the right of residency who are unable to speak English? They live here, might as well help them integrate and contribute.

TallyB · 04/03/2011 15:59

Yes, Sweden definitely does, and to a higher standard than the courses offered here. A friend who moved there after marrying a Swedish man, can now speak the language fluently, and was also able to access free college courses to bring her American qualifications up to par with the Swedish equivalent. The Swedes do this because they know a fluent Swedish speaker with relevant qualifications will find it far easier to find work and become a productive tax payer. In other words: they believe in speculating to accumulate.

OTheHugeDaffodils · 04/03/2011 16:01

When we moved to Germany, my mum didn't sit about waiting for the local council to subsidise her doing a German course. She got out there and learned by going shopping.

I'm sorry, but to me social engineering niceties like free ESOL courses really do feel desirable rather than essential given the current state of the public finances.

And how on earth does someone who can't speak English end up with a UK passport? I've no beef with people naturalising in the UK, but that just seems odd to me.

JessRabbit · 04/03/2011 16:06

Seems like a daft use of funds when the money could be put into mainstream education.

MadameDefarge · 04/03/2011 16:19

International migration is a fact of life. Always has been, always will be. How you deal with as a society reflects your values and economic needs.

Laquitar · 04/03/2011 16:22

I did ESOL when i came here, then worked for 19 years as nanny (for parents who went to work and paid higher taxes plus my tax), now i am paying higher tax myself and employing 5 other women. Hmm

Leda · 04/03/2011 16:35

JessRabbit -- the Netherlands. And it's compulsory as far as I know. They understand the value of integration.

Xenia · 04/03/2011 16:48

The more cut backs we can make the better. Money has seeped out from the state in massive quantities in all knids of ways over the last 10 years and it's bankrupted us as a nation.

MadameDefarge · 04/03/2011 16:50

Ah yes. Back to the feckless poor bankrupting a first world nation.

That would be it.

MadameDefarge · 04/03/2011 16:52

Of course, the 7bn that vodafone wriggled out of the the tax front is no loss to us at all.

JessRabbit · 04/03/2011 18:15

It actually doesnt matter how much tax vodaphone has avoided, its still a net contributor to the economy. If we capped corporation tax we could encourage manufacturing and service industries into the UK.

MadameDefarge · 04/03/2011 19:21

Well, as a business owner myself, I do find it offensive that the public coffers are down by 7bn, while I am literally chased around the block for VAT. I employ 12 people in a very deprived area of London, pay my taxes and still think its a good idea to encourage integration.

littleducks · 04/03/2011 19:29

I think if vuts are needed it shouldnt be free for people on JSA but should be free for low income people who arent.

Realistically if you are in the middle of your course are you going to quit to take a job? I doubt it somehow

It would be better to provide it for those not on benefits, so that they can go straight into the work market

JaneS · 04/03/2011 21:47

Surely it's more expensive to have mums who don't learn English (therefore can't get most jobs, can't teach their children English, require translators for all sorts of things), than it is to just teach them? Confused

Or are people really saying they'd just rather these pesky women who don't speak English magically disappeared?

Xenia · 04/03/2011 22:03

We don't have the money to pay them. If we can ensure companies like vodafone stay here and pay tax by not making the UK tax regime worse for companies who can choose to operate here, so much the beter. If we scare companies away the poor will be left with very very little. You don't kill the geese which lay the golden eggs.

JaneS · 04/03/2011 22:20

But if we can't afford to pay for them to learn English, why can we afford to pay for all the support needed if we don't pay for them?

mablemurple · 04/03/2011 22:30

pmsl at the posters who say that these women can teach themselves English by borrowing books or cds from their library.

Would these be the same libraries that are going to be closed because of the swingeing cuts this appalling government has forced on our local councils?

JessRabbit · 04/03/2011 22:57

How about we say to people. Come to England IF you can speak the language and IF you want to integrate and IF you don't need benefits. Otherwise, go to France, Sweden, Denmark because they'll pay you to learn their language.

JaneS · 04/03/2011 23:01

Jess - personally, I think there's a lot to be said for not letting people come if they can't pass an English test. But I think we'd have to do that, not to let people come then refuse to support them. It's not fair to let someone come here, start to make a life, and set them up for a fall.

There would still need to be provision for asylum seekers, of course, but it'd still reduce the numbers of people needing English courses hugely.

Spinning ideas here of course ...

JessRabbit · 04/03/2011 23:07

Asylum seekers should never get to England though. If you're seeking asylum you should claim it in the first SAFE country. As an Island we shouldn't get any asylum seekers, they should be claiming in other countries first.