can anybody explain to me the difference between a PhD and a Doctorate?

[overthemill]

I really can't work out the difference - is one qualitatively 'better ' than the other? Is there some thing about taught elements perhaps? I feel very stupid asking but when I go to Uni websites it doesn't make it clear. My tutor is encouraging me to go for a Doctorate but I wondered what the difference is? Doctorates seem much more expensive!

Hello, they are the same thing, a PhD is the most common sort of doctorate, you can also do others (eg an EdD, doctorate in education, or a DPhil). There is also a medical doctorate (MD) but that's what you do if you're training to be a doctor. If you see what I mean. A few doctoral programmes have taught elements; most are research-only (which is what used to be the norm). Does this help? What field are you in? Not sure why something called a 'doctorate' would be more expensive though.

A PhD is the same thing as a doctorate :-) The PhD bit is short for doctor of philosophy. Other forms of doctorate include the MD, which is a shorter (usually 2 years rather than 3) form of a PhD done by clinicians in England. In America the medical qualification is an MD whereas in England it is an MB, so everyone automatically gets upgraded in the US! In England, there is usually no (or very little) taught component - it is 3 years research + writing up. In the US they take about 5 years and have some large taught components. I'd go british myself :-) I don't understand the expense bit - you should compete for studentships which are probably allocated to your university/department. They will give you a stipend and the department pays your research costs etc.

hope that helps.

hello! I am currently 'in' education (work based CPD kind of stuff not kids type teaching) and doing part time CPE PGCE. Absolutely loving every minute and can't bear the thought of it ending. My tutor asked if i'd considered doing an EdD - and another one suggested a PhD (bot all by themselves, unprompted by me so I think they think I'm 'up' to it. Previously I did a Masters (about 15 years ago Social Policy) and my tutor then told me I 'should' do a PhD but my mum died and then I got pregnant and life kind of ran away with itself. Now I'm really keen to get back into Education for myself maybe teach/research in University? But feel stupid asking my tutor what seems like a really basic question!

Don't feel stupid asking questions, that's what tutors are for and it's a pretty arcane system after all! There are quite a few doctoral programmes around which are aimed at teachers and trainers and designed to be part-time / distance, to fit in with people's work commitments. This also means you could do it somewhere which is quite a distance away from you, if it was the best place for your research interests. It's worth asking around, asking your tutors where is a good place to do it, looking at websites, thinking about what area you want to do research in (you'll need to write a research proposal for most programmes) and who you might like to have as your supervisor - think big, think about who your ideal supervisor would be and what you most passionately want to research.

brilliant, so will start googling what i'm interested in and see what comes up!
only problem, interested in so much! feel like kid in sweetie shop...

PM me if you want to OTM, I'm an academic in a field that's quite closely related to education / training and might be able to offer you some more specific advice depending on your area.

An EdD is more of a taught programme with assignments - have a colleague doing one now.

A PhD is personal research.

overthemill - see if you can find yourself a book too. This one I found good, it explains all the arcane stuff, and the stuff about why the academic world is the way it is. As it says, the unwritten stuff. Could supplement it with a more mainstream one, there are loads of guides.

There's also an Engineering Doctorate (Eng.Doc). This involves both working in an engineering organisation and attending some university courses, doing research and producing a dissertation and some peer reviewed journal articles. (You can also do a PhD in Engineering in the usual way by study at a university).

i never cease to be amazed by the helpfulness of MNers!

I will PM you systems addict if that's ok - what a helpful soul you are!

peppapig - at the Uni where I am now the EdD is 20% taught, 80% research. And one Uni I looked at today advertising some studentships (though couldn't see any EdD ones)charged £1400 for PHD fees, £3200 for EdD. So I continue to be mildly mystified.

Will check out the book, thanks Aliceworld!

just back from a night's teaching so have to go to bed now..

How odd - my friend is doing hers within three years (like the way you do a degree over three years rather than it being open to extensions, max 4 years etc). She does taught, assignments and then research.

The one thing to be wary of is that sometimes if you do a professional doctorate rather than a PhD is that you cannot apply for some post doc funding schemes. I am sure I read this when reading one the other day but can't remember which one it was sorry

People in my field are pretty scathing of professional doctorates. One we were discussing recently basically promoted it as being a way to do a PhD without having to engage with theory, which is so fundamental to what a PhD is about. Don't know, but can imagine, it wouldn't be looked at as highly as a PhD. To reiterate, I don't now that, am speculating based on people's murmerings. My field is a mix of vocational and academic.

I am an professional Civil Engineer, with a PhD in Civil Engineering (all research, but one of the entry requirements was that I also had a relevant taught MSc; this was in the mid 1990s though). Certainly amongst the academics and professionals I know, a PhD holds more respect and regard than an Eng Doc. I certainly agree with AliceWorld on this (hi Alice, I am also called Alice!)

If you are going to do a PhD, or any other kind of doctorate, by prepared for it to take over your life and every waking (and sleeping) thought for several years. Be prepared also, that it may not "promote" you in your field either. In my case, I really enjoyed doing it, but really it just served to hold back my work experience for 4 years. However, I work in an applied field where - once you have a BEng - it is actually doing the work that counts and develops your understanding of the field. I never wanted to be a career academic though.

i wondered if there was some kind of hierarchy like this - I want to do further study for my own sake but would also like to teach in HE I think so if I spend the money/time/brain power on this, it does need to get me somewhere.

aliceworld - what field?

In psychology professional doctorates are becoming very common as a way to wrap up the academic and vocational bits of becoming a chartered psychologist. The Doctorate in Clinical Psychology is funded by the NHS and combines taught bits, placements and research. It's one of the most competitive postgraduate programmes around and many people apply year after year before getting on (or giving up). 1000+ applications for 20 places is not unknown.

Yes, in some fields (PhDs and presuambly the other things) they are totally pointless and it's how you've provide yourself in generating business int he last 4 years not how many hours you spend researching that costs so in a sense in some fields they involve making you worse professionally and reducing your income and prospects. In other fields you cannot get to do some jobs at all without them.

In engineering the most significant qualification is to become a Chartered Engineer - based on degree, regulated work experience, written exams and interviews. Well, Civil Engineering anyway.

Overthemill - kind of urban policy kind of stuff.

I would never say a PhD is pointless, the personal development and your growth as a thinker/researcher is immense and I can't think of an equivalent. To be totally immersed in one thing, to the the expert, to be able to justify every single teeny tiny position you take on everything is without equivalent. To get a job, I would say it is not necessarily helpful. To be an academic utterly helpful. To be many other things pretty unhelpful. But my job isn't the point of my life.

i think i just want to be able to immerse myself in something and taking a doctorate will enable me to do that. In any case I'd like to start teaching in HE with or without a Doctorate (I've had tutors in HE who didn't have one but appreciate it is harder and harder without.).
Aliceworld.. hmm.. i used to be deeply into poverty, equalities and cohesion - anything like that or more structural? I love the people i 'meet' via mumsnet!

I'm currently finding out more about their course for Environmental Research at Nottingham University and I'm already pleased with my (future) choice. Everywhere I go for more info on the course, people say they have amazing facilities and supportive tutors. I encourage people to also find out more and see. I wonder if anybody following this topic has done the course?

And what's a Masters ?

Master of Arts, Science or whatever - it's a taught degree one step up from a Bachelor of Arts, Science or whatever. In terms of the National Framework of Qualifications, it's a Level 7 course. Undergraduate (first/Bachelor's) degree levels are Level 4 for year 1, Level 5 for year 2 and Level 6 for year 3. A levels are Level 3, I think.

Thanks .

You can do a research Masters, though (just to confuse the issue). But it's always a shorter course than a bachelor's (undergraduate) or doctorate-level qualification.