Latest on tuition fees

[Bearcat]

This morning it has been said that students from poorer backgrounds (free school meals) will get one or two years of their tuition fees paid for them, thus saving them up to £18000 not having to be paid back after graduation.
If these students are the brightest and end up as the doctors, lawyers, investment bankers of tomorrow they will have to pay back far less than the low paid teacher, social worker or any other low paid professional.
Surely all these young people should be starting off with the same debts at the start of their working life.
No one has to pay these fees up front.
I have read in the last few weeks that even if you have rich parents you will still be forced to take the loans to pay for your education and will not be able to have your parents pay them back in one fell swoop as this will advantage you above all your other graduating contemporaries.
Surely the latest coalitions ideas will advantage poorer students (now) who could end up as the most succesful graduates.

That's terrible, school should only ask for voluntary contributions and there are funds available if parents cannot pay. We had a letter home to say that they had funds for families on FSM or similar, we are similar except I work full time for my money. I asked DD if there was a trip abroad she needed to go on and was going to ring in. There isn't one and tbh my pride would stop me.

That's true mumsinbeds, why do they need to give free tuition if these fees are so fair? It a complete joke. I hate this government and what they are doing to our children.

They need to give extra means tested maintenance grants to help with living costs to keep the final debt down, but include working poor families as well, those who's parents cannot afford to pay their rent etc.

I think the other thread about the working being seen as underclass clashes with this thread now.

The working poor - around minimum wage - or working for around same levels as income support are definitely going backwards. I don't begrudge any youngster receiving free school meals to have help with anything they can benefit from educationally, but how many is this going to affect. Government looks to be backing down a bit in its stance over fees, but it isn't really as this initiative over uni fees is going to help so few youngsters.

It does upset me that to work full time and receive the same amount - around £16K - you are worse off than doing nothing. Travel is costly, work clothes, and of course income tax are not factored in. The loss of EMA to families working but on low incomes will be immense and will definitely put many off the idea of further education as travel outside of London for over 16's isn't free. Income Support recipients have had free school meals, help with music and trips, laptop schemes, cold weather payments where disabled youngsters from poor families haven't, and now will benefit from help with fees and targeted EMA funding.

Why arent these things available to all families with an income of around £16K despite where it comes from. Poor is poor, after all.

I do despair for the next generation. We are not investing in them properly and we will be the ones to suffer.

You have a fiar point I guess: we're a family that can;t get the cold weather payment any more and whilst we will cope I do wonder how we as a group were selected for the cut. DS3 runs about naked all day as do many with ASD; some kids have no immune system so need to be warm- it does make you wonder doesn;t it?

But I still think we're better off than those who do not work becuase we have pride and self esteem. Next April I hope to be amde a partner in DH's business (my creative skills complement his technical ones fortunately, although I have different palns in the longer term). I'd much rather be working poor than jobless (excepting disability etc) poor for my own mental health.

I was just thinking the same, when I had a scan of that thread. They are targetting extra help for the unemployed, don't give much to anyone working for a low income, and at the same time are pulling the plug by getting people off these qualifying benefits.

For instance single mums not being entitled to income support once the children get to a certain age. How many will still be in the system when their children reach adulthood and want to go to uni. How many of their children will want to go giving that they will still be accumulating debt. It's just a token to make them appear generous in the headlines.

Current income levels for extra help in the way of bursaries is under 21-25K so helping the students of the working poor. They are taking that away.

Good for you SantasMA - I hope all goes well with your plans and you are successful. Juggling life will not be easy so wish you all the luck in the world.

I also understand what you say about pride and self esteem. It's very true. It gives you a sense of purpose and mental stability. That said, there are many people doing vital work this country needs that will never earn above the levels this government deems poor enough for free school meals, yet will never qualify for them. To me, this is an insult to such workers when they see some (not all) of the unemployed thriving.

I have a disabled nephew myself. He is 17 and confined to a wheelchair. He cannot walk, run, move, exercise to keep warm. His father is a single parent working for the same reasons you describe - self esteem etc, and also need for adult interation, but cannot earn enough to enjoy a great lifestyle owing to being limited to hours. Cannot find carers willing to care for teenager with many disabilities and local authority disbanded respite care completely. Family do not qualify for cold weather payments because of employment but proportionately spend a fair amount of money on heating.

Can any government realise that family life differs and one solution does not fit all. Oh, I forgot. It does realise that, but unfortunately doesn't care.....

I think doesn;t care is the issue, yes.

I hope that my MA will lead to eitehr a social work conversion or related work (I was employed by homestart before so that sort of line). That should mean I earn enough to cover the child / adult care as well or Dh can work from home.

It's only becuase I have been blessed with the ability to work at that level though, absolutely nothing to do with my own merit. So many people work so ahrd for nothing and deserve more. There's currently a payment built into TCs that you get if wou work with a disabled child, but that is likely to vanish under the new benefit system.

betelguese, in my field (science), it is normal for PhD students to get first authorship on any publications which they write. The supervisor will usually act as the correspondence author. It is rare for any papers to be single author papers (at least not original research articles, as opposed to literature reviews).

Also, of course PhD students do not know if they will pass. They are working towards the highest educational level. If their research is of PhD standard then they will pass, if not they won't. This is no different to working towards any other qualification (you don't go into undergraduate level studies knowing that you will certainly pass either!). A PhD is however more than just putting in 3 years of work and writing a little report about it - but so it should be.

Riven - thread has moved on a bit, but if you see this - I think your DD is paying what's called a kitchen fixed charge termly. That's what keeps the kitchen open and meals for everyone reasonably cheap, whether or not she then wants to eat. Then, each meal has a small fixed charge.

I hated this as I preferred to eat (what would have been) more cheaply in my own room - I never managed to argue the fixed charge off my bill, but rumour has it that some students at other colleges did manage to make the case they should not have to pay the fixed charge if they were not eating in hall.

betel, why should a PhD student be guaranteed a pass? Or have I misunderstood you?

This latest notion about students from the poorest backgrounds getting two-thirds of their tuition fees paid, is pointless window dressing.
Whether a student comes from a 'poor' background, or from a family where the parents' income is, say, £30,000 or £35,000 p.a.- it's all the same. The STUDENT is, himself or herself, 'poor'. School-leavers are NOT a monied class. Parents with a £35,000 income and three children wanting to go to university, are not going to be able to help, much, with their kids' tuition debt. So their three children are going to be treated WORSE, post graduation, than the child of a student whose parents are unemployed; have I got this right?
Ye Gods, this is all nonsense. Give back to our children the right to free higher education, funded by tax. It worked fine for more than forty years (AND student grants went hand in hand with free tuition.)
In exchange, you know what? Our children will pay for our pensions, from their tax.
Sounds fair to me.
I'm ashamed of those of my fellow babyboomers who are endorsing brand new debt for brand new school leavers. Mind you, the bankers, those worthy souls, must be rubbing their hands in glee.

DH was working at our local Uni (RG) and was chatting to undergrads and postgrads.

They told him:
Tuition fees are not a debt.
They do not count towards mortgage calculations.
They are a deferred tax that you have to pay if your earnings are good enough.

It takes a bit of getting ones head around but makes a lot more sense and a lot less worry than thinking of it as a 'mortgage'.

DD is only 14 but views the increased fees with horror and sees them as particularly hard on young women. When she leaves uni with a potential debt of over £30,000, she worries about being able to save towards buying a starter home of her own. She reckons that she'll be in her mid-thirties before she's convinced that her debts are manageable and can even think about starting a family. Of course that opens another can of worms because she wants to be able to take a career break but doesn't see how it will be possible because of the level of debt that will be accruing. No 14-year-old should be worrying about mortgages and career breaks!

DH and I would love to help both our teens but are stuck on one wage at present. His MSc and thirty years experience only warrants a lecturer's salary of £35000. My MSc and twenty-five years in software development renders me unemployable. (Considered too old by software companies and over-qualified by others.)

drummer
but the debt will be accruing at less than inflation
and if you are not working it all goes on hold anyway
and it does not count towards mortgage calculations
because it is really tax and not debt